The bug that DC is not related to the bot itself, but to the game. I watched a CHF replay yesterday (i.e. offline) and it crashed.
Added (28-Aug-2018, 9:39 AM) --------------------------------------------- I tried version 4.1 with Dooms. today. I really appreciate the work Bond is putting into this game. I also like the idea of new spells and ulti. I however will not play CHF 4.1. The reason being is due to these changes:
- Newts = 3 food - Golem = 3 food
Currently we see AOE and WW/DS every game. I like to play creeps. That is my playing style. Now this cannot be done without me stacking hardcore each game - which not only will be unfair to other players, but won't always be possible.
Sure I can join the AOE bangwagon, but I really liked the micro part of footy. It is a strategy too.
With version 4.1 we will see only mass AOE... EACH and EVERY single game.
Creeps imbalanced? Sure when you have 3 levels above everyone else as a result of a good rush, as well as tons of gold you do become imbalanced.
But a succesful start would anyhow give you the gold to tome up (making you imba as well) or tech units up and kick bases.
Having a good rush or mass will give you an advantage. It is not creeps that are imbalanced, but the players or the stacked teams. Most guys I have seen playing creeps and Golems do so when they stack. Stacking will give an advantage, no matter whether you nerf newts and Golems. They will tome up, team up on killing ennemy heros and pool for tech. The problem was never creeps... it was good players being really good (and we cannot blame them for that) or the fact that good players stacked.
Now, the only thing we have done is remove yet another playing style, that we actually see quite rarely these days (and that people have figured out how to counter).
I really do not like version 4.1 in its current state. I hate to say it. I know bond has put a lot of work in it and I appreciate that, but I cannot lie - version 4.1 demotivated me to play CHF in the future (if it is to come out looking like the beta version).
Added (28-Aug-2018, 9:45 AM) --------------------------------------------- For clarification: In version 4.0 you could with some good early game spells save up gold and make some mercs without having pro allies. This will not be possible in 4.1. This may motivate players to stack more if they golem - it surely would motivate me to do so (which sucks for everyone involved).
The thing you don't understand is that creeps are way too overpowered because they are so hardly counterable. Golem, nexts, turtle are all very tanky and are impossible to kill unless you get at least lvl 10. But if someone knows how to micro properly, no one should get lvl 10 in the game. Having more food for each unit doesn't mean you can't micro anymore, it just means you have to upgrade base to get a full micro team, which is the point. It forces you to spend more gold, enables people to challenge you a bit more and somehow balances the game. If we do not touch the food cost of creeps, then we should really make them squishier. Honestly newt & golems are unkillable, even with bladestorm. U need lvl 11 to charm golems but you can't get lvl 11 if you play charm vs a golemer lol
Anyway about stacking etc, i really think that all chf games should be -pool off, it would solve a ton of problems. And if Bond really does that, then we could think about not nerfing the creeps too much. But still slightly. I mean cmon, you are not being objective, you're trying to defend creeps just cuz u like using them. And it's very understandable, it's true that full aoe WW games are boring. What can I say? People ain't creative enough
Added (28-Aug-2018, 3:51 PM) --------------------------------------------- anyway if bond has to work on the game every time blizzard releases a new patch we'll never see 4.1 online
Well I get what you are saying, but the current state of CHF is "mass aoe" all over the place with wind walk. The issue is not merc creeps and players who micro. Go online and play a few games, and count how many players you see playing mercs. Very few. You may see DooMs, myself and perhaps a few other old schoolers who drop by occasionally. Mercs is not the primary issue - few people play it. The issue however is people constantly picking carrion, nova, fork lightning, chain lighting, wind walk and divine shield - EVERY SINGLE GAME
I get your point that players have to tech, but in order to get the current 10/10 creep army (from 4.0) in 4.1 you have to tech TWICE. That's 2500 gold right there. That's quite a bit. You will get your creep army set up much later. Everybody who plays creeps knows that in most games (unless you play pub games, in which you would win ANYWAY whether you micro or not) you have to win within 15 (latest 20 min). After that, ennemy's get teched units, high level HK's and AOE. Have fun going micro against that!
Golems falls apart quickly - when ennemy reaches level 11 AOE and HK, they kind of do well against creeps. Additionally, once enemy reaches t2 with tons of upgrades or t3, creeps are also countered.
And here I have not mentioned all the other counters - to list a few: - Yamato canon level 2 instant kills a golem - Torental Tribute also instant kill golems - Mind rape golem and staff them back to your bass (I used to do that a lot against micro players back then) - Turtle - Lizard - Explosion! - Teching - Newts - Catapults - HK and focusing the hero of the microing player - Charm - duh! - Transmute kinda counters it - vs wizard and priest. - Chimera - Bash Bear - Mass summons isnt really a counter but is annoying
Not only that... high level aoe and HK spells also counters newts and can easily kill heros.
Agait, point is: if bond wants to have old players coming back, removing the option to play creeps is not really the way. By removing one of the ways to play is not the way to make the game inactive. Microing is a thing of the past and good creep micro players would most games anyway without microing creeps. Only thing is, you will be removing a key dimension of the game - a whole playstyle!
I am fine with some tweeeks on certain creeps, such as the newts being a too tanky. But beside that, I don't really see this as a good call.
Added (28-Aug-2018, 4:49 PM) --------------------------------------------- I forgot to mention - donation played smartly also counters Golems and creeps. You will see a lot of donation these days. Most good players now play donation, HK or AOE. You rarely see Golems. Why nerf that. Additionally, people are figuring out how to counter them, and people who do not play golems usually think it is easy to win with them. No, because getting set up, getting high level, rushing, buying them, getting the gold... that's the hard part.
That is... unless you are stacking... but then again the problem is stacking and pooling, not the golem play.
i've not yet played the latest version but this was too much of a nerf, bond
to balance the newt, you could either split into 2 different types(not sure if anyone else used the dispel as much as i did) and make the net newt's armor be light or none.
lets take a look at what makes the golems good:
stun chaos damage building armor magic resistance
removing 1 or 2 of these would balance them. you could either replace them with another minion with stun and magic resistance WITHOUT the building armor as this requires you to buy the turtle or lizards to eat them. its too pricey and a simple counter for the golems SHOULD be teching. what i used to do is select my skills depending on who i was playing against. for a hardcore golem player, serpent wards were really useful along with teching. the problem then(maybe still ongoing?) was ppl smurfing cause they were shitty players. BUT, a counter to a mercenary shouldnt have to be taken during skill selection, it should be available anytime. the easiest counter of course is teching, but due to the armor, this makes it much difficult and just makes the golems a good point to aoe as units will be attacking. ofcourse, t3-5 have no problems with these creeps, but by then it is too late.
edit: just played a quick one, why havent u removed death coil from shaman? this skill was put in SPECIFICALLY to counter halpmeh in wfe's version. it should have NEVER stayed in custom footies. http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
Message edited by ic3dt3a - Wednesday, 12-Sep-2018, 12:13 PM