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The Myths about APM
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| Bond009 | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 4:04 PM | Message # 1 |
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| Actions Per Minute - commonly abbreviated as APM
I want to take a minute and help people to understand just what APM is, and maybe debunk a few myths that come from the stories of high apm.
High APM is often associated with skill, as it can indicate that a player both knows what to do in the game and has the manual dexterity to carry it out but there is many loop holes to this..
The majority of APMs are repetitions of orders already given, so that APM is not considered a good indication of skill.
A player's APM value is determined by the number of actions performed in a given minute. Many actions like repeated selection, and right-click Move/Attack actions, are easier to carry out than others, and players may repeatedly perform (or "spam") these actions, making them redundant in terms of their usefulness.
"Spamming" is sometimes used as a way to warm up in ladder games and maintain speed for later phases of the game, or it may be used simply to increase a player's recorded APM in order to improve the perception of their gameplay skills (AKA False positives).
But lets not forget accuracy is another factor determining a player's APM.
Accuracy is the coordination of precise mouse clicks and keystrokes. Greater accuracy will result in fewer mis-clicks and mis-strokes; thus the player's efficiency increases resulting in a more accurate valid APM. Players who have greater accuracy can perform other vital tasks during game-play and can multitask without losing efficiency which allows them to do the same tasks with fewer APM.
So to sum it all up.. People with anything higher than 180apm are wasting their time and should become more accurate with their microing and clicking ability.
They also are spamming the movement of their units too much or over selecting units. That repetitive nature gives false readings on ppls APM and if you are clicking more than 3 times a second the things you are doing are nonsense.
In fact over clicking to send a unit somewhere actually hurts efficiency since it creates time delays in the game engine with unit order reaction delays.
It is physically impossible to do more than 3 completely non-related and non-repetitive actions per minute for any length of time. So (depending on game length) anything over 85 is probably pro and anything over 180 is just for show.
There shouldn't be any bragging of higher APM than 180 ever again. To have higher is almost an insult rather than a good thing. 
You are welcome world 
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| Trixxareforkids | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 4:19 PM | Message # 2 |
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| Hmm. Explains why I'm the best CHF player but I don't necessarily have the highest APM
"being admin on a forum is NOT a super power" - lSpiderl
"CHF BECAMED SUCK S" - yan
"CHF has been my childhood. It actually defined lots of my childhood." - RosarioVampireZ
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| shinkirou | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 4:26 PM | Message # 3 |
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| Quote Trixxareforkids (  ) Hmm. Explains why I'm the best CHF player but I don't necessarily have the highest APM
Tollol
w.e i always have around of 100-120 but almost all are hotkeys for my creeps builds
and u should post the new version and forgot the asdf apm
That's easy. If someone wins, the fighting will end.
Message edited by shinkirou - Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 4:26 PM |
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| BajsHoran | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 6:14 PM | Message # 4 |
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|  in ur face nexus
Green Man - im so jeallous of ur elo
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| Legal_life | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 6:39 PM | Message # 5 |
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| Shots fired
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| ic3dt3a | Date: Tuesday, 28-Jan-2014, 6:56 PM | Message # 6 |
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| Quote shinkirou ( ) u should post the new version and forgot the asdf apm
QFT
http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
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| SOUNDWAVES | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 1:06 AM | Message # 7 |
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| Quote shinkirou ( ) u should post the new version and forgot the asdf apm
agree.
Added (29-Jan-2014, 1:06 AM)
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Quote Bond009 ( ) It is physically impossible to do more than 3 completely non-related and non-repetitive actions per minute for any length of time. So (depending on game length) anything over 85 is probably pro and anything over 180 is just for show.
under 110 apm is bit slow but yea it's ok.
I guess around 100~200 is enough for chf but you can't be pro in ladder with that apm.
Pro ladder players average apm is over 300 and its not just for show.
Their control is amazing when you see their micro, macro and multi tasking.
Rest in Peace Rookies
Message edited by SOUNDWAVES - Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 1:08 AM |
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| RosarioVampireZ | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 2:30 AM | Message # 8 |
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| I find it funny how Bond009 talks about APM after threads that stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER that APM is not skill. However, APM is just one of the many tools in this game to determine someone's skill. After all, APM is like the SAT, high SAT does not always mean "smarter" but in average, people who perform better academically will have higher SAT
Anyways, many of you guys who play always assume high apm = spam. However, this is not the case. I will give some examples in which you can compare. Compare:
- Cyray vs Wildjapgirl. Who do you think will win? And if you believe Cyray, you should not be surprised that Wildjap has 40 apm while Cyray has over 100.
- Cou vs Adam. Again, who you think will win? If u answer Cou, you shouldn't be surprised to know Cou also has over 100 apm. (much higher apm)
- F00tyvs Firehart. Again, who you think will win? If u answer F00ty, you should not be surprised to know F00ty has over 100 apm (much higher apm)
This occurs due to this reasoning (example) Say:
- Player 1 is new. Player 1 takes 2 sec to click the spells "frost nova" and "coil" and aim at the enemy hero.
- Player 2 is less new. Player 2 uses hotkeys and uses hotkeys "z" and "n" at enemy hero (takes 1 sec [1 sec of free time which he uses to check his base])
- Player 3 is really good. He played for so long that he instinctively knows when to attack to kill heros. The moment he sees enemy hero, his hand automatically does "z n" without much thought. He has completed the task in 0.3 seconds. He has 1.7 sec to spare compared to Player 1. Is he going to do nothing? No, he is going to check his base, his base pet, cast reveal with rats, check enemy status, his allies, enemy items, and even his towers.
As you can see, while Player 1 took 2 sec to do 2 actions, Player 2 was able to do same action + 1 additional in the same given time interval. And Player 3 was able to do same thing + 7 additional in that same 2 seconds. How? Because Player 3 has played the build so long that it became his instinct reaction.
Also, for those who wonder why people have such high APM in chf, well for me...
1. I don't use "F1" for hero. I just use hotkey 1
2. I constantly check my base pet (hotkey 2) for mana.
3. I constantly use reveal in my free time with rat (hotkey 3).
4. I right click a lot because I want PRECISE movements on my hero and I want EXACT timing to gain minimum damage and maximum output. (last minute kills, kill deny, etc.)
Also...last but not least...
Quote Bond009 ( ) It is physically impossible to do more than 3 completely non-related and non-repetitive actions per minute for any length of time. So (depending on game length) anything over 85 is probably pro and anything over 180 is just for show.
There shouldn't be any bragging of higher APM than 180 ever again. To have higher is almost an insult rather than a good thing.
BUT TO SAY "PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF70vsvM6Cw
SEE THIS REPLAY THEN REPLY AGAIN BOND.
Message edited by RosarioVampireZ - Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 2:33 AM |
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| SOUNDWAVES | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 3:15 AM | Message # 9 |
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| Quote RosarioVampireZ ( )
that's amazing micro by lucifer.
It's impossible to me.
Do you have more videos?
Rest in Peace Rookies
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| RosarioVampireZ | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 3:21 AM | Message # 10 |
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| Quote SOUNDWAVES ( ) that's amazing micro by lucifer.
It's impossible to me.
Do you have more videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuugycc71Pw
And Happy's Micro (not really micro but.. xD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x09y4BWYSi8
The Perfectionist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8o3pzV_Z6A
Ofc there are the other micro VIDEOS...of them all, I think the
Warcraft 3: The Forsaken League is damn nice ^^
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| SOUNDWAVES | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 3:35 AM | Message # 11 |
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| really nice videos. I don't play ladder anymore but I often watch pros match. Still exciting.
Too bad every official wc3 league is closed. Wc3 is still best game in my life.
Rest in Peace Rookies
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| Adam_CZ | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 4:31 AM | Message # 12 |
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| Moon and Lucifer are really top players but please dont forget they both lost against Cechi
http://www.wcreplays.com/replay.php?m=View&rid=84754
http://www.wcreplays.com/replay.php?m=View&rid=89041
I still remember how Cechi said "when i was playing warcraft firstim in my life players like Moon or TH000 were best in the world but now i can rape them so easy"
Message edited by Adam_CZ - Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 4:35 AM |
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| TangerineSky | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 4:35 AM | Message # 13 |
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| Quote RosarioVampireZ ( ) Also, for those who wonder why people have such high APM in chf, well for me... 1. I don't use "F1" for hero. I just use hotkey 1
2. I constantly check my base pet (hotkey 2) for mana.
3. I constantly use reveal in my free time with rat (hotkey 3).
4. I right click a lot because I want PRECISE movements on my hero and I want EXACT timing to gain minimum damage and maximum output. (last minute kills, kill deny, etc.)
God damn sgwannabe you really do show proof of what a lying douchbag you are because this is the most retarded control group setup I've seen and you obviously spam for show. But we all know what a fake tool you are, I don't know what my apm is but I can already tell that I have better control than this kid.
My control group set up.
f1 is for hero. indiviudual movement to dodge away
key 1 - Hero, vengence/tier newts golem blank golem. Sometimes shaman if my roomate isnt in game
(all units and creeps that will be in the heat of battle)
key 2 - newts -quick jump between heros skills and nets.
key 3 - rock golems -for rock throw nice easy chain to snag a hero with rock, net, then finish with hero.
key 4 - blank the war golem.
key 5 - pockeys in back of base
key 6 - towers (sometimes i miss click though trying to get to 6 its a big reach)Added (29-Jan-2014, 4:35 AM)
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using 1 for your hero only is a beta move and wastes the most easily accessible control group right below your heros default button
  
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| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 5:29 AM | Message # 14 |
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| Nice videos rosa
of course Adam has to ruin a good thread with retarded posts about cechi
anyway there are actually some pros with low apm
for example pwnu.WaN is one of the best undead in euro and he has only 150 apm
i think over 250 is really just spam but when you're clicking so fast and so focused on the game of course you will accidentally have some spam clicks
name: james mcgovern
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| Adam_CZ | Date: Wednesday, 29-Jan-2014, 5:54 AM | Message # 15 |
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| pwnu.WaN (354 APM) vs Cechi (262 APM) Cechi autowin: http://www.wcreplays.com/replay?m=View&rid=66720
really its not about APM
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