So, I've been attempting to improve my plays with a pretty common build.
Unholy Serpent Lasso
I've got two questions. First of all, what is a good ultimate to take with this build that will be beneficial late game? Second, what is a good way to end a game with this build when you are ahead by like 4 or 5 levels?
Death tower works well with serpents. For the lasso and unholy aura set, avatar of vengeance or even chimaeras works best.
Aim for the towers then Is the name of the game. Since you have lasso, you can incapacitate their heroes and use units( I'm going to assume you teched) to kill hero and or base. Your serpent wards could also be used to kill towers http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
So, I've been attempting to improve my plays with a pretty common build. Unholy Serpent Lasso
There's a problem with this While this is a common and good build, it is also a very risky build It is much more safer to get AOE like frost nova over lasso because right now, you have no real AOE or instant HK spell. This means that if a game is about AOE wars or donation, by default, you can never win. I would only truly get this build if I am 100% sure that my allies would support me with at least 2 AOE and a bolt or cold strike.
If you really like Serpents, I would rather suggest you go Serpents, Frost Nova, Tichmeh Aura
If you really like Unholy, I would rather suggest you go Unholy, Serpents, Frost Nova
If you really like lasso, I would rather suggest you go Unholy, Lasso, Frost Nova (or Bears if you are going to risk game using golems)
Anyways, if you are indeed going Unholy, Serpent, Lasso, the best way to end game is EARLY because you have no instant spell including AOE, late game, you have nothing to counter tech or high level heros with large HP. In other words, you have only 2 options in which both are risky and hard to execute. The easier one is teching. Yes. Tech is a good option. But if you are going this strat, I highly advise you starting from DURING mass to keep upgrading attack on footies (and leave around 950 gold for tech too ^^) In general, by end of mass, you should have like 6 attack and enough gold for tech since your footies would dominate mass. And ofc, you would tech in the following order: Footmen => Archers (they are stronger than rifles in CHF) => Crypt Fiends => and from here... if you can afford and game won't end with crypt fiends somehow => Druid of Talons => Dryads
The other option is goleming. However, I hugely discourage this as for the amount of gold you use, you will not get an effective and efficient profit.
In addition, if you are teching or goleming, I suggest you get at least 1 newt. Net is rather useful. Lasso + Net is really good at making heros not escape (and if you start massing newts like 3 newts.... well, the game just gets really lame ^^)
First of all, what is a good ultimate to take with this build that will be beneficial late game?
Like I said, your build itself is very weak late game. In fact, it is pretty much next to useless late game. Your build is strongest mid early and you have to strike there. Anything other than that and you will lose. However, if I'm correct, serpents and lasso goes well with Vengence or Chimeras (pheonix if you are sure you can end game in around 15 minutes)
Personally though, I rather suggest you go Serpents, Tichmeh, Frost Nova, Vengence or Unholy, Lasso, Bears, Chimeras
And again...to accentuate To end game: Tech is the only answer. Tech with massive attack. Have fun ^^
Thanks for the in depth analysis. I noticed as well that unholy, serpents, and lasso was suffering late game, so I will try out your suggested builds.
As far as build order goes with serpents, tichmeh, frost, and vengeance, what do you suggest? Also, do you think it's viable to invest in a newt or two early game to try and get some hero kills? And if you don't mind, what is the preferable build order for the build with unholy, lasso, bears, and chimera? Are the bears mainly for late game?
Also, why do you choose frost nova over another aoe?
Also also, I usually just up serpents once or twice at mass and focus on other spells. Is that a good way to do it or should I continue to upgrade serpents?
So many questions :P Certde
Message edited by Jawnson - Sunday, 08-Mar-2015, 2:17 AM
Before I say anything, for these builds, make sure no matter what to have pet follow your hero 24/7. Your pet if you don't know gives mana regeneration to your hero. And hogging it means mana won't be a problem. And if it is, just buy a precept or two or a medallion. And also, always ALWAYS carry a teleportation scroll, and a potion. Ideally, your items should almost always be: 1. Teleportation Scroll 2. Speed boots 3. That free item in start (jaood's amulet) 4. Precept of mana (or medallion) 5. Potion of healing 6. Potion of mana (or that 350 gold instant white potion)
Of course, if you have that 350 gold white potion, you don't really need the other potion. In that case, if you are confident with winning, go grab yourself the endurance item from shop (the red ball orb). It's incredibly useful and I almost always get it every game because my hero would walk much faster and cause well.. it is a really good aura.
As far as build order goes with serpents, tichmeh, frost, and vengeance, what do you suggest?
The idea with this build order is to camp at an enemy base and spam summons to gain levels. Tichmeh aura does incredible armour reduction and with spams of serpents and vengence, any unit near it would pretty much die in a heartbeat. And also, frost nova helps ensure that those footmen dies before reaching you or to kill those heros that survived both serpents and vengence Level 1: Frost Nova Level 2: Serpent Wards Level 3: Nothing Level 4: Frost Nova and Serpent Wards Level 5: Tichmeh Aura Level 6: Vengence Level 7: Frost Nova Level 8: Tichmeh Aura Level 9: Serpent Wards Level 10: Frost Nova Level 11: Vengence Level 12: Tichmeh Aura Level 13: Frost Nova Level 14: Tichmeh Aura Level 15: Serpent Wards Level 16: Vengence Level 17 to up... max up tichmeh aura, frost nova, and vengence (Serpents can stay level 5)
Pretty much, from level 5 after mass, get a speed scroll and return back to your base. Then, make sure you gather all footmen in your team in your base and speed scroll it to the nearest enemy team that is weakest. Make sure to make all the footmen right click to an edge where the enemy tower is because the first thing you need to ensure is "delete" the nearby towers with footmen so you can camp. Then move your hero to the edge of the enemy team's base (in which your footmen are making a wall for you), start spamming serpents and Vengence. Because of the fact that your hero is so hidden away at the edge and no one can come near you, you will be facing little to no damage on your hero. And from this, you will constantly abuse nova and serpents to gain massive levels and gold. <which you can use to tech> And pretty much, once you secure the feed in an enemy team, just make sure they don't have a single tower slowly and make sure they are in the brink of death (yes... do not kill them for they are your feed) Once you are at least level 10 or 13 and you are satisfied with all the feed, then kill them to ensure they don't recover (as dispelling/killing your footmen/killing your serpent wards should have given them considerable gold). After that... go to the next base and repeat process.
And this is pretty much the same with chimeras too. It's just that with vengence, you get 7 free units ^^ And tichmeh aura is incredibly overpowered. If you have level 6 tichmeh aura and you deal 12 damage. You will deal 35 damage at enemy. Add that up with lots of serpents and vengence (and those spirits), you can pretty much annhilate anything with hp below 75% including heros. And if they survive....frost nova ends them ^^
Also, why do you choose frost nova over another aoe?
Frost Nova in the beginning is a very effective AOE and for your serpent wards to be useful, you need your hero to level ASAP. Frost Nova early game is pretty much AOE + level 4 Frost Aura With Frost Nova, you are pretty much getting 2 spells. An AOE and an AURA. To make things better, it can also be used as a semi herokilling spell as it deals heavy damage early game to a single target too. In other words: Frost Nova is the best AOE early game and it is instant unlike other AOEs like Fire Strike Instant AOE means = You can snipe hero kills or units easily **At early game like level 1, unlike other AOE, frost nova gives you the BEST level 1 AOE damage and splash, and a level 4 aura. And yes, at level 1, frost nova at single target does pretty much identical damage with spells like coil. So what you get with Frost Nova early game is a spell that has coil + swarm + level 4 frost aura ALL in 1 spell and it is instant meaning you will NEVER miss.
Also, do you think it's viable to invest in a newt or two early game to try and get some hero kills?
With this build, I do not suggest you waste your gold on newt. It is too expensive. I would suggest it though if you are going lasso and are teching with massive help from allies with gold or support. However, it never hurts to buy a newt or two if you have excess gold.
And if you don't mind, what is the preferable build order for the build with unholy, lasso, bears, and chimera? Are the bears mainly for late game?
The preferable build is golem-ing. Bears do massive damage and also stun and late game, it is UNDISPELLABLE, has LARGE HP (tank), HIGH DAMAGE, and has CLEAVE. You have a chimera, 2-4 bears, 1-2 newts, and 1 blank golem (and 2 stun golems if you can afford), you can pretty much annhilate any hero in site. Moment you lock them, those chimeras and bears will finish job. Also, the build is nice because it is also incredibly useful with tech. If you have ranged tech, then you can lasso while those bears and chim and your units maim at a hero. Now best part is, from level 10, your bears can use CLEAVE. In other words, it will be your "AOE". To make things better, chimeras too do "AOE" damage. And both summons do incredibly high raw damage too. Other words: Their damage alone can annhilate locked heros from lasso AND their splash can pretty much kill any nearby mass units. Best of both worlds!
And bears in the beginning while used as a herokilling, as it levels up (level 3), it has bash. And bash my friend, is incredibly overpowered at locking enemy heros to ensure that they can't escape after lasso. And from level 4, like I mentioned, their cleave gives you $$$. You can farm easily. And at level 6, they are magic immune. Pretty much, they are 2 walking green tanks. Just leave them be at anywhere and they can annhilate tier 0 to tier 3 (and especially with level 3 chimeras you can basekill). ^^ Also, bears and chimeras together for basekilling is really really frightening. Bears can't be killed (they take forever and is not worth effort) and level 3 chimerars last forever. Sure bat riders exist but how you going to go near the eggs if the enemy hero has lasso and bears? It's pretty much "stare at those eggs" until those chimeras revive again and go back in basekilling mode.
Message edited by RosarioVampireZ - Sunday, 08-Mar-2015, 2:56 AM
As far as build order goes with serpents, tichmeh, frost, and vengeance, what do you suggest? Also, do you think it's viable to invest in a newt or two early game to try and get some hero kills?
If you play serpent/tich/nova/veng you can focus more on saving and then using your gold for highly upgraded ranged units earlier, whereas if you go serpent/unholy/nova/venge you will probably get a huge army of creeps first (e.g. 1 priest, 2 golems, 2 newts, 1 turtle) before starting to tech.
Also, you might want to also consider trying endurance aura if you go bears and chimeras. A skill build of unholy/lasso/bear/chimera allows you to utilize creeps more effectively like all unholy aura builds, but endurance/lasso/bear/chimera leads to extremely scary bears and chimeras, especially at the milestone levels of 10/13/16.
The first couple hundred games I played of this map I used all the builds mentioned in this thread a lot. Nova/unholy/serpent; Nova/tich/serpent; Unholy/serpent/lasso, etc. You can win a lot if you master builds like these, but it can get boring fast. Make sure to vary your play once you master basic variations of aoe-death tower and unholy-vengence and lasso-chimera. There are many ways to win besides the exact skill builds most commonly used by the top players. However, almost all builds that win games will involve some combination of overpowered skills (e.g. unholy, tich, lasso, bolt, flamestrike, nova, divine shield, windwalk etc)
Message edited by genkiamerica - Sunday, 08-Mar-2015, 7:23 AM
Here I will give you long list of replays that me and my team did. You'll find the serpents/lassoo/unholy and vengance along with proper tech uses back in those days. These weren't just against pubs but against legendary teams and stacked teams, so in other words, it's not under powered if you can use it right. ^^