|
ELO/ALTS ABUSE
|
|
| ic3dt3a | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 4:58 PM | Message # 31 |
 Robotic Ninja
Group: Investor
Messages: 2347
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2723
Status: Offline
| Quote Adam_CZ (  ) Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester Units or if you win vs amateurs.... Why for win vs Real Madrid is not 1000 points and for win vs amaterus team is not only 0.0001? I hope you understand me.
these teams don't play ranked/rated against amateurs, they do it for fun.
@adam, ur elo goes down so much because u lose against new players, it doesnt go up at all because u win stacked against new players with less elo.
http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
|
| |
| |
| Ktmo123 | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 5:30 PM | Message # 32 |
|
Noob
Group: Users
Messages: 9
Awards: 0
Reputation: 93
Status: Offline
| I really didn't want to butt into any of this, but action must be done when the majority is unhappy. No matter how much effort is put into raising Elo and such, if the majority of the people that are enjoying themselves by playing CHF are not happy because a handful of people are making alternative to boost up their game, it calls for a change. I have been around as a small "admin" playing and enjoying myself, and personally I don't care if I lose rank or what my elo is, blah blah, cause I play to have fun. When there are people running around ruining games just to boost up their rank; the majority becomes unhappy and people don't want to play. This will result in the collapse of a community and things will just fall apart. You guys as leaders and owners need to crack down on abuse and such. You guys need to get rid of people, and fix the problems the majority is complaining about in a mannerly fashioned way.
|
| |
| |
| FirNesS | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 5:35 PM | Message # 33 |
|
Robotic Ninja
Group: Game Mod
Messages: 2446
Awards: 0
Reputation: 3754
Status: Offline
| Ktmo123 is just so right. And in chf case it's not the majority, it's more than 75% of the community.
Dude Random I think that everyone truly appreciate what you did for chf, but I also think that this elo thing isn't a good thing, even if your intention was good.
Well then people will say that I left so I shouldn't care, but I've been playing quite a lot so I still care a bit about it. 
|
| |
| |
| ic3dt3a | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 6:20 PM | Message # 34 |
|
Robotic Ninja
Group: Investor
Messages: 2347
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2723
Status: Offline
| Quote FirNesS ( ) Dude Random I think that everyone truly appreciate what you did for chf, but I also think that this elo thing isn't a good thing, even if your intention was good.
i think this is his problem, he feels that his project/contribution is being destroyed. Yes, it was initially a good idea, but like the game itself, there has to be a "patch" added to this in order to make this work FOR CHF. I once again suggest only having elo raise/fall for those who are REGISTERED users. Yet, i'm not sure how this would work for a 1 registered with 2 new players(or alts). Perhaps a % raise/decrease could be implemented. I'm not sure how the points are calculated, but say if 3 "pros" play against 1 "pro" and 2 alts, then if the single "pro" wins, he would only get 1/3 of the points he would have gotten had all 3 players been registered.
i dont know, but we can try to get something together. i suggest QQwaves, cryay, rosie(has high SAT scores, REMEMBER!!!), bond, random, and cou be involved in creating a good system to rank people.
i couldnt care less about elo, but its ruining the game due to massive stacking, elo sniping, abusing admin to swap to red and make modes impossible for new players in an attempts to raise elo quickly but unfortunately only getting 1 point, and alts being used to boost a friend's elo.
http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
|
| |
| |
| Random260 | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 8:49 PM | Message # 35 |
 Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| Alright, I will fix it right now the issue is that it was balanced for a 1v1 team not a 1v1v1v1. The whole elo doest need tyo be change just parts need fixing. Some of the issue iss the default elo is 1000. I think it is kinda high but what do you or bond recommend the default elo to be. Yeah, bond need your opinion in this issue since you know about elo lol from ent's hostbot (and so do others. So i don't get people mad). As for the current elo changes how much did you change only top 10?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
|
| |
| |
| ic3dt3a | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 8:56 PM | Message # 36 |
|
Robotic Ninja
Group: Investor
Messages: 2347
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2723
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 ( ) Alright, I will fix it right now the issue is that it was balanced for a 1v1 team not a 1v1v1v1. The whole elo doest need tyo be change just parts need fixing
it does need minor tweaking here and there. will probably have to adjust it again when there is a new method of abusing it. is there anyways in which you can only make it to where registered users' elo is affected and not everyone? Also, could you change the bot lobby message to your website and register for elo or something? i think it's kind of obvious that the game wont start without full players. . .
http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
|
| |
| |
| Random260 | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 9:01 PM | Message # 37 |
|
Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| I feel the elo is a dictionary with every player. Should of like a dictionary of chf players win/losses. And I plan to keep everyone on it. Just incase we need it to decide clan invite to hpmm or just other chf clans use it to invite members to there clan.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
|
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Friday, 17-Jan-2014, 10:32 PM | Message # 38 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 ( ) I feel the elo is a dictionary with every player. Should of like a dictionary of chf players win/losses.
but thats not the purpose of elo at all
name: james mcgovern
|
| |
| |
| F00ty_R3b0rn | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 5:25 AM | Message # 39 |
 Hero
Group: Clan Members
Messages: 426
Awards: 0
Reputation: 2868
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 ( ) Alright, I will fix it right now the issue is that it was balanced for a 1v1 team not a 1v1v1v1. The whole elo doest need tyo be change just parts need fixing. Some of the issue iss the default elo is 1000. I think it is kinda high but what do you or bond recommend the default elo to be. Yeah, bond need your opinion in this issue since you know about elo lol from ent's hostbot (and so do others. So i don't get people mad). As for the current elo changes how much did you change only top 10?
Change Default ELO (1 000) won't fix anything. For example if you put 500 as default ELO top 10 will get between 1 500 / 2 000 ELO. It's will be - 500 ELO for everyone but it has nothing to do with ELO problem.
It's explained here http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/26-3254-3 or http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/19-3266-1.
And CHF is not exactly a FFA game type cause you are playing in team not alone.
!Sp every single game with (Win rate + Elo rank or Win rate + ladder level) is the best to balance Rank but then you can't play with your friends anymore.
That's why the tier 1 / tier 2 bot was the best way to allow players to play together and to get a better (I said better not perfect) representativ rank.
If you reset ELO you won't loose your dictionnary. You will just get a fresh one 
Current CHF APM ! The Legend is R3b0Rn !
http://imageshack.com/a/img401/3523/vzsc.png
|
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 5:30 AM | Message # 40 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| Quote F00ty_R3b0rn ( ) Change Default ELO (1 000) won't fix anything. For example if you put 500 as default ELO top 10 will get between 1 500 / 2 000 ELO. It's will be - 500 ELO for everyone but it has nothing to do with ELO problem. It's explained here http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/26-3254-3 or http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/19-3266-1.
And CHF is not exactly a FFA game type cause you are playing in team not alone.
!Sp every single game with (Win rate + Elo rank or Win rate + ladder level) is the best to balance Rank but then you can't play with your friends anymore.
That's why the tier 1 / tier 2 bot was the best way to allow players to play together and to get a better (I said better not perfect) representativ rank.
If you reset ELO you won't loose your dictionnary. You will just get a fresh one
f00ty r3b0rn is such a smart, gifted child
name: james mcgovern
Message edited by Cyray@USEAST - Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 5:31 AM |
| |
| |
| SOUNDWAVES | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 6:39 AM | Message # 41 |
|
Ninja
Group: Investor
Messages: 958
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2145
Status: Offline
| random you should add stay percentage to elo somehow. just win and lose doesn't show who is good cuz this game is 3v3v3v3.
It's not fair when last resist team treated same with early leave pub feed team.
also remove all negative scores. it's pointless. 0 should be the least score what ppl get.
And I agree with no more cleaning for d/c or desynce. cuz this is one of the biggest method to rigging their score.
i.e) stooge earns 0.1~0.2 per win but when he lose connection or pull off line somehow,
and then he crying and he rewards 2+ score from that.
Added (18-Jan-2014, 6:39 AM)
---------------------------------------------
btw what is elo calculation formular?
how come I can lose like -50 by just one game?
what if rogerlucas(-600) beats nexsus(2000++) does he can earn +50?
Rest in Peace Rookies
Message edited by SOUNDWAVES - Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 7:21 AM |
| |
| |
| Cou | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 8:04 AM | Message # 42 |
 Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 1818
Awards: 4
Reputation: 7036
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 ( ) As for the current elo changes how much did you change only top 10?
Walter had about 2400, cesar, 2300, veteal 2300 each, nexus had 2200 and I had like 2190 and everyone below wasn't far. The reason why I did that is because they were ruining the elo system. My intention wasn't to destroy your hard work random, but it was to try and make it fair and punish the elo abusers. Let me explain what they did. They purposely made accounts that was losing on purpose in order to gain bonus elo and in the process ruined alot of games. I remember I encountered them a few times myself, they'd pool their teammate 1900 gold and leave. Or if they stayed, they purposely feed the other team so that his and the pro team would both lose. Alot of players were getting sick of it, especially me. They would pass that losing account around too, It's not just one person using that account. They'd take turns using that account and lose. Take for example this thread
"http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/49-3274-1"
Again is another example of them trying to help each other for elo. I didn't edit elo to rig anything, The top 10 sacrificed a few 100 elo's each so that anyone down the bottom could also have a chance also. You need to explain more on how I ruined your project? I just nerfed the top 10 to 1900. They must've "wasted" their time playing but they did it for all the wrong reasons and ruined many games. Roy use to spam my inbox asking me to do something about the scam of elos, but I wouldn't at the time. Then other players like mr dark, ameen, stooge, tang and alot more would complain. So I needed to do something. If you want me to restore their precious elo, then I can. Ofc being #1 on the elo charts doesn't make you the best player, but you don't need to ruin alot of games or snipe the same player over and over again.
@Bond I don't have a problem with alts. If you want to train or try new strats, no problem. But I find it unfair at times if the player is stacking themselves in alts vs a good playerr and wrecks their elo. They lose -30 elo if they lose to anyone not around their ranks.
Legendary Team All Starz pack: http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/49-3291-1
|
| |
| |
| MrDark_Devil | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 8:08 AM | Message # 43 |
 Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 416
Awards: 0
Reputation: 2911
Status: Offline
| :P ok i will not alts anymore X) 
gigasus91 : Im Adam bitch .
|
| |
| |
| Random260 | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 9:32 AM | Message # 44 |
|
Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| I know you orignal intention wasn't to ruin it lol. As for all the reason cou it is nothing to do with the elo system it is to do with the map. Even without the elo people would still do that but the elo may have made people abuse it some more. There is nothing we can do. Look at ent's dota when people feed to the other team they have no advanced system to deal with it they just report and ban. However, pooling 1900 gold then leaving can be fixed easily. But as for the people feeding other team it cannot be fixed. You didnt ruin the elo. I just feel like now we lose alot of our history. My orignal intention was in 10 years times we will look back and remember the history. But if the history is changed it is worthless. Plus the elo should be modified by a player.
We can modify the elo to be more balanced but we cannot fix the abusers (except for the pooling 1900 gold). It is impossible to tell whether a player is going to feed to another team). Now that I think about it your idea to punish it isn good but they way you did is wasn't. We should up our banning for alt accounts. But admins can ban players for intentional feeding.
As for the idea of making the lowest elo 0 is a good idea. But what are the implications trying to work it out. So lets backtrack. With what I said how can we fix the elo. As for the issue of getting -500 elo score to play with you it can possible be fixed or even nerfed if the limit is 0 elo. What do you guys reckon?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
|
| |
| |
| Adam_CZ | Date: Saturday, 18-Jan-2014, 9:44 AM | Message # 45 |
 Robotic Ninja
Group: Users
Messages: 2438
Awards: 0
Reputation: 3631
Status: Offline
| For me its funny how Cyray was crying about "sniping under alts" but TDT is keeping ruin games under alts. I just found game (it was luck) where JST4X and probably Monster or Cheesy ruined game for kietrivers and Kofola. They were not playing their best and when noticed there are altls in team 3 it was too late:
http://playchf.tk/game/100136/
|
| |
| |
