|
ELO/ALTS ABUSE
|
|
| Random260 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 1:27 AM | Message # 166 |
 Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| We haven't even tried my method yet. I never agreed with you I was explaining why my idea is just as good. Honestly, your method is complex while my method is simple and will do the job. I stuffed up the elo? I didn't even modify the elo... I am using the elo system that was made since the beginning. About message 161 I didn't agree with you. I know what to do and I believe this will work out or aid the elo a bit. Yes, I listen to cou's and bond's opinion more than yours. Thats because you were banned so I take your opinion very lightly. As for footy I did take his opinion but I feel strongly about my idea. Let me go over the 5 faults of the elo and say how my idea will help it:
Pros rape noobs: Well pros will have a challange
Elo is too easy and hard for everyone to catch up: Well now with the pro bot and my idea noobs have a better chance of rising the ladder. It also allows pros to have a challange. And with the new change that if a player doesnt play for a certain amount of days his elo will get deducted this reduces the chance a player might not play at all if he is #1
Alts with negative scores team up with pro: Well this has been nerfed. And many other. I know what I am doing who thought of garena? You guys however, I
implemented it.
Who came up with the idea of elo for chf? I thought of the idea.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Message edited by Random260 - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 1:35 AM |
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 1:43 AM | Message # 167 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 (  ) Who came up with the idea of elo for chf? I thought of the idea.
THATS NOT TRUE AT ALL
i asked bond to do it MONTHS before you came along but he ignored me since he was mad at me at the time
idiot
name: james mcgovern
|
| |
| |
| RosarioVampireZ | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 1:50 AM | Message # 168 |
 Robotic Ninja
Group: Clan Members
Messages: 2113
Awards: 0
Reputation: 4239
Status: Offline
|
Message edited by RosarioVampireZ - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 4:20 AM |
| |
| |
| Random260 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 1:51 AM | Message # 169 |
|
Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| 
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
|
| |
| |
| Bond009 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 2:39 AM | Message # 170 |
 Overall Site Owner
Group: The Creator
Messages: 3180
Awards: 3
Reputation: 7521
Status: Offline
| Quote Random260 ( ) Not reall who would want to start there elo all over again? But there's the problem with redirection if a pro get redirected to pro bot that pro bot will never fill and so will the noob bot what do you guys think? I really want redirection. Plus I really want to keep the scores. Really hate to put that leaderboard in legacy move.
ok so this went from page 5 to page 12 in a day and i havent read it all but i think it shouldnt probably be a redirect thing by auto, it can be like bondbot a separate bot that also is linked within the database becuz if u win or lose a game on bondbot it counts if its the elo map
if its not a separate thing like that then if there isnt enough pros to fill that bot at a certain time then that guy might just wanna play on the normal bot.. not be auto redirected and have to wait for it to fill with pros.. it should probably be 2 separate bots
ill try and read and catch up on this later tho.
|
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 2:58 AM | Message # 171 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| Quote Bond009 ( ) if its not a separate thing like that then if there isnt enough pros to fill that bot at a certain time then that guy might just wanna play on the normal bot.. not be auto redirected and have to wait for it to fill with pros.. it should probably be 2 separate bots
if he wants to play on noob bot he can just make alt account..only problem with this is some garena players who dont speak english might be confused and not realize that they have to make an alt account to play chf on noob bot if pro bot isnt filling...so they might stop playing chf all together
but without redirect i dont know if it will be possible for pro bot to ever fill
name: james mcgovern
Message edited by Cyray@USEAST - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:00 AM |
| |
| |
| Bond009 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:08 AM | Message # 172 |
|
Overall Site Owner
Group: The Creator
Messages: 3180
Awards: 3
Reputation: 7521
Status: Offline
| Quote Cyray@USEAST ( ) if you knew what you were doing, me and f00ty wouldn't have to save your elo system for you...
anyway you need to have two ladders because the win/loss record is meaningless then. you don't reset the elo on noob bot, you just start fresh on pro bot.
for example i have 228-4 win record but its ONLY BECAUSE I BEAT MANY PUBS
if you transfer my account to new pro bot it will say i am 228-4 on pro bot which is stupid because i didnt beat good players to earn those stats. i just stomped pubs.
if you don't make 0-0 starting on new pro bot and just keep one ladder, then the stats will be all mixed up.
Quote Cyray@USEAST ( ) if you win a game on the pro bot it doesnt affect the noob bot at all
if you win a game on the noob bot it doesnt affect the pro bot at all
theyre completely seperate and thats why they need SEPARATE LADDERS
you can keep all win/loss stats on the NOOB BOT how they are since some players earned them legit, i don't care about that.
BUT THE PRO BOT HAS TO START FRESH AT 1000 ELO 0-0.
you can only get to pro bot if you have 25 wins and 1300 elo on noob bot
Quote Cyray@USEAST ( ) IF PRO BOT WIN/LOSS RECORD AFFECTED NOOB BOT THEN PROS WOULD HAVE WORSE STATS ON NOOB BOT SINCE PRO BOT IS HARDER TO HAVE A GOOD RECORD IN...
this is all pretty much spot on with my first post on page 5, this is how it should happen or it wont end up well.
Quote F00ty_R3b0rn ( ) For example if you start to loose massivly on tier 1 bot you will get under 900 ELO. And if they don't affect each other you couldn't come back in tier 1 bot.
since the 2 bots wont affect each other this wont matter. Here is why, the Pro bot will check the Pub bot's elo and wins # if the minimum requirement checks out then it allows them in the pro bot.
edit:
Quote Cyray@USEAST ( ) if he wants to play on noob bot he can just make alt account..only problem with this is some garena players who dont speak english might be confused and not realize that they have to make an alt account to play chf on noob bot if pro bot isnt filling...so they might stop playing chf all together
but without redirect i dont know if it will be possible for pro bot to ever fill
yea i see that point.. hard call to make then.. i guess we could try it at first without the redirect and if it doesnt fill at all then try the auto redirect thing once they reach the required pub ELO. then we know if it does fill then its ok and we can leave it normal, so players wont be confused like that and quit.
Also we need to be careful how we reset stats, alot of players back in the day quit when i reset the code system becuz they cared alot about it, so we dont want ppl quitting becuz elo is gone if they care a lot about it. It will take a little time for ppl to understand the Pro bots purpose.
|
| |
| |
| Bond009 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:31 AM | Message # 173 |
|
Overall Site Owner
Group: The Creator
Messages: 3180
Awards: 3
Reputation: 7521
Status: Offline
| Ok so from page 9 i skimmed over fast till pg12, i see alot of arguing so no sense in fighting we all need to be on the same team with this to work it out lol (if anything important was said in those pages let me know i didnt really read closely)
Also ENT did this over a year ago with the LTD bot i just didnt really understand what purposes it could serve till now. The idea has been around a long time so it doesnt matter much lol.
It was only made for LTD becuz some ltd pros lol <--(i have to laugh at that) wanted a better way to have easy inhouses and have them fill.
Our purposes go much deeper than that and this will fix a lot more issues for us than LTD ever had becuz their players dont really care becuz of the game types nature, aka its not a game u can get mad at or care a lot about lol.
Random wants to keep the stats as they are on the old bot.. i guess thats fine since it doesnt really matter anyway becuz new ppl will reach the elo cap and go to HR bot. but at the same time it might confuse ppl why they have high elo on the site page and they cant get past a certain elo to rival those ppl in the 2000s.. on the pub bot. It could confuse ppl that check that page and not the Pro bot stats page.
Maybe just make a back up of that page for archive purposes? as like record proof of it or something they can look back on? and then make everyone over 1300 set to 1300?
u can save the first 5 web pages or something and just post them as a link to look back on? before all high elo ppl were set to the 1300 cap or whatever we make it.
The thing that is important tho is each ladder needs to be separate tho becuz ppl will get more losses on pro bot probably so if those wins/losses are also added to the pub bot it will make those players look not as good when they vs'd pubs
and other reasons we went over above.
Thats how the LTD HR bot was done, it just checked that players stats on the pub bot made sure the elo and wins was high enough and then let them play and when u first played on that bot it was like you were a new player starting fresh.
This way, even if someone drops below 500 elo in the pro bot it wont matter or affect anything, they can still enter the pro bot becuz it only checks the pub bots records. and those shouldnt change or go down after the requirement is reached.
Edit:
Im not sure if this was said but i think i saw random make the point to have the elo start at 1300 on the pro bot? its best to just start fresh probably but i mean either way it shouldnt matter, the wins/losses will be 0/0 and everyone entering that bot will have the same starting base line whether it be 1000 or 1300 as the base it doesn't matter too much.
Its like inflation balance, if the cheapest thing in footies was 100 gold i could have just made it cost 1 gold and balanced everything else around that concept. As long as the starting number for everyone is the same the # size doesnt matter.
People got use to seeing their elo be "high" like 1300-2000+ so i think thats why random was saying he thinks ppl will be mad starting over in the pro bot? but either way it doesnt matter like i said above.^
|
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:43 AM | Message # 174 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| i agree with everything bond said
the one thing i would change is that i think if a players ELO drops below a certain level in the pro bot they should get moved back to the noob bot and removed from the pro bot
two reasons why:
1) this will prevent abuse. lets say the APF guys make a new account thats 25 wins and 1300 elo, then they go in the pro bot and lose 100 games so that it has negative ELO. they could then use that account to boost themselves in the pro bot, and we would have the same problem as before
2) if someone manages to get into the pro bot but theyre losing every game, its clear they dont belong there and should go practice against noobs more
so i say if a player's elo falls below 0 on the pro bot they get moved back down
name: james mcgovern
Message edited by Cyray@USEAST - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:45 AM |
| |
| |
| Bond009 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 3:52 AM | Message # 175 |
|
Overall Site Owner
Group: The Creator
Messages: 3180
Awards: 3
Reputation: 7521
Status: Offline
| Quote Cyray@USEAST ( ) 1) this will prevent abuse. lets say the APF guys make a new account thats 25 wins and 1300 elo, then they go in the pro bot and lose 100 games so that it has negative ELO. they could then use that account to boost themselves in the pro bot, and we would have the same problem as before
2) if someone manages to get into the pro bot but theyre losing every game, its clear they dont belong there and should go practice against noobs more
so i say if a player's elo falls below 0 on the pro bot they get moved back down
true but whats the best way to do this.. hmm maybe like once the players name gets below the "not allowed number" they get their elo reset to normal and wins/losses 0/0 so their account is reset on that bot and they have to work their way up on the pub bot again?
Becuz this will be hard coded so if their pub stats are good it will push them into the pro bot still. So maybe reset their stats on both or take 100 elo off their name on the pub bot so it doesnt auto bump them back into the pro bot once their stats are reset on the pro bot?
|
| |
| |
| Cyray@USEAST | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 4:07 AM | Message # 176 |
|
Hero
Group: Users
Messages: 324
Awards: 0
Reputation: 416
Status: Offline
| Quote Bond009 ( ) true but whats the best way to do this.. hmm maybe like once the players name gets below the "not allowed number" they get their elo reset to normal and wins/losses 0/0 so their account is reset on that bot and they have to work their way up on the pub bot again? Becuz this will be hard coded so if their pub stats are good it will push them into the pro bot still. So maybe reset their stats on both or take 100 elo off their name on the pub bot so it doesnt auto bump them back into the pro bot once their stats are reset on the pro bot?
if they fall below a certain ELO in pro bot then i think we should wipe their pro bot stats so it looks like they never played in pro league, or just reset their pro bot stats to 0-0 1,000 elo which is basically the same thing (either way, remove them from the ladder leaderboards and wipe stats), kick them out of pro bot league, and put them back in noob league with 1,000 ELO (but same win/loss record as they had before so their progress doesnt get deleted). Then they can work their way back up to 1,300 elo and try to get back into pro league
but if they were just abusers like apf guys or something, do that and also give them a 2 week ip ban
what do u think?
name: james mcgovern
Message edited by Cyray@USEAST - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 4:09 AM |
| |
| |
| F00ty_R3b0rn | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 5:35 AM | Message # 177 |
 Hero
Group: Clan Members
Messages: 426
Awards: 0
Reputation: 2868
Status: Offline
| Quote Bond009 ( ) For example if you start to loose massivly on tier 1 bot you will get under 900 ELO. And if they don't affect each other you couldn't come back in tier 1 bot.
since the 2 bots wont affect each other this wont matter. Here is why, the Pro bot will check the Pub bot's elo and wins # if the minimum requirement checks out then it allows them in the pro bot.
I was meaning this alsoQuote Cyray@USEAST ( ) 1) this will prevent abuse. lets say the APF guys make a new account thats 25 wins and 1300 elo, then they go in the pro bot and lose 100 games so that it has negative ELO. they could then use that account to boost themselves in the pro bot, and we would have the same problem as before2) if someone manages to get into the pro bot but theyre losing every game, its clear they dont belong there and should go practice against noobs more
so i say if a player's elo falls below 0 on the pro bot they get moved back down
Because If leaderboards don't affect each other it means if you reach 900 ELO and 25 win you are allowed to play forever on pro bot.
- 500 Elo in pro bot = come back to pubs bot isn't a bad idea But you have to do this manually or can be coded ?
- Reset stats of low ELO in pro bots would create some abuse. For example if i want to reset my ELO on pro bot i will start to loose massivly and then boom my elo reset by moderator
Added (20-Jan-2014, 5:35 AM)
---------------------------------------------
For rest, we are only repeating ourself. So i hope Random will trust us
PS : I'm kinda tired atm, so maybe i didn't read your post correctly. Gn
Current CHF APM ! The Legend is R3b0Rn !
http://imageshack.com/a/img401/3523/vzsc.png
Message edited by F00ty_R3b0rn - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 5:37 AM |
| |
| |
| stooge | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 8:50 AM | Message # 178 |
|
★ Contributor ★ / Legacy Staff
Group: Investor
Messages: 1248
Awards: 5
Reputation: 3407
Status: Offline
| WOW this thread went from 5 pages to 12 pages overnight.
wow wow wow
If I tell you I am good, You will probably think I am boasting.
If I tell you I am bad, You will Know I am lying.
|
| |
| |
| Random260 | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 10:05 AM | Message # 179 |
|
Head Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 685
Awards: 0
Reputation: 987
Status: Offline
| Honestly, there are reason we cannot do cyray Idea and the biggest think is it is too hard a average coder will take 3 months to do that and a coder will not waste his time with this. plus my idea solves the issues. Bond, tell the reasons why my idea is not suitable:
- We have one leaderboard.
- We have 2 hostbots. One hostbot is is tier 2 and one hostbot is tier 1
- Once a noob gets past 1300. He will get redirected on tier 1
Why this method is good- In tier 1 pros vs pros. This will mean a pro has more chance of losing thus making noobs easier to catch up. It will also give a pro a sense of challenge that if he losses he may go down back to tier 1.
You arguments of why not: we need 2 leaderboards because the way the ELO calculation formula works,
your old ELO and your old win rate score will be used to calculte your
new ELO rank if there is only 1 leaderboard. the other problem is that
if someone on the pro bot loses too many games their ELO will fall below
the noobs even...which makes no sense since they are being pit against
top players in their game
- Ok, what you mean is that some players will lose more then other player when they first start playing on pro (that is what it actually means). As I said it could turn into a good thing since it gives pros a challenge. So if a player does get past 1300 and gets his first game on pro, this will be his test if he losses then he will have to get back on tier 2 and work his way up.
Also about: the other problem is that if someone on the pro bot loses too many games their ELO will fall below
the noobs even- Yes, but think about it. if a pro does fall below noob he will need to get back up. But if a noob gets to the pro bot it will even out since he will drop back down again. It is a circle of reactions want me to draw you a diagram of what it looks like...
if you transfer my account to new pro bot it will say i am 228-4 on pro
bot which is stupid because i didn't beat good players to earn those
stats. i just stomped pubs.
- Yes, but remember we are focusing on elo here. As for the amount of wins on the pro bot we could make it so it displays how much wins from pro bot and noob bot ( I will explain more about this later). Ever will get to 1300. So lets say a person got 1600 we now know he got 300 from vsing pros and the rest by stomping noobs
This is directed at bond (if he already written please write again since it is basically 1 whole page and might have skipped important parts) since I need to know why it will not work. If you want to post cyray please say the reason in a suitable format like I have done. We don't want any more spam. Don't argue about how hard it will be. Argue about my reasons. I don't want to search through all the threads and fine the reason I already did it and found nothing else. So please take your time and post.
I will talk about resetting stats later just stick to the topic and do not mention it.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Message edited by Random260 - Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 10:14 AM |
| |
| |
| mehrquack | Date: Monday, 20-Jan-2014, 12:06 PM | Message # 180 |
|
Grunt
Group: Clan Members
Messages: 227
Awards: 0
Reputation: 328
Status: Offline
| random i dont want my elo
Here is a easy solution
1. If you want to be ranked with elo , you need to be registed on "chf ucoz elo recording"
=> They command !ae [activate elo ] will be added to ur main acc.
2. If u want to challange/fight against someone for elo ,u need to type "!ae". Then ur opponent can decide if he want to accept ur challange . If he accept ur challange , he will tpye
also !ae.
3. After !ae was activated each registered player is able to use !srt [switch registered teammembers]. This command can be used only once in looby.
Changing : 1vs1. One of ur opponents team member will be swaped to ur team while when your own teammember will be swaped to your opponent team
: 2vs1. If it is 2vs1 [ their elo needs to be activated +one of them need to type !srt ] One of the stacked teamember will be swaped in to another team which hasnt
any registered player. He will be swaped with base owner spots ==> 1vs1vs1
:3vs1 . If it is 3vs1 [their elo needs to be activated+ one of them need to type !srt ] the game will be change form 3v1 into a 2v2 . The 2vs2 is based on the arithmetic average elo.
Benefit: Each player is able to decide if he want to versus someone or if want to enjoy an game
The teams are randomly => fair
100% against elo abusers because
1. only reregistered players have elo [chf ucoz]=>Main acc . Therefore they wont loose on purprose
2. The only way your able to earn elo is it to activate ur elo and to win against activated elo
3. There will be about 1000 reregistered players => easy to check if there is an abuse
Added (20-Jan-2014, 12:02 PM)
---------------------------------------------
No need for two bots . Cheapest as well as fairest way to improve elo Added (20-Jan-2014, 12:06 PM)
---------------------------------------------
mehr : After !ae was activated each registered player is able to use !srt [switch registered teammembers]. This command can be used only once in looby.
When player activate his elo after !srt was used , your able to use !srt again
Being proud to be not an average"chf ucozer"
|
| |
| |
