Yesterday Bond009 and me were trying to find a way to balance drain life and siphon mana.
So I was suggesting this : - Those 2 spells should be casted instantly - High CD. Those spells shouldn't be used as free pot - There are the following values
Siphon mana : Lvl 1 : 60 mana steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 5 Lvl 2 : 150 mana steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 10 Lvl 3 : 250 mana steal + CD = 12,25 + Mana costs 15 Lvl 4 : 400 mana steal + CD = 13,75 + Mana costs 20 Lvl 5 : 700 mana steal + CD = 15 + Mana costs 50 Lvl 6 : 1000 mana steal + CD = 16,25 + Mana costs 90
Life drain : Lvl 1 : 50 life steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 65 Lvl 2 : 115 life steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 85 Lvl 3 : 175 life steal + CD = 12,25 + Mana costs 100 Lvl 4 : 215 life steal + CD = 13,75 + Mana costs 125 Lvl 5 : 280 life steal + CD = 15 + Mana costs 155 Lvl 6 : 425 life steal + CD = 16,25 + Mana costs 165
Before to say it's too much or not enough you can compare those spells with storm bolt and mana burn values. For example : - Mana burn lvl 6 = 950 mana burn - Storm bolt lvl 6 = 850 dmg + stun effect vs 425 life steal (425 steal to your opponent + 425 hp earned = 850 too)
So guys, think twice before to post plz !
PS : AccCreate and Soundwaves I know your guys are reading the forum even if they don't log on . So feel free to give your point of view ! Current CHF APM ! The Legend is R3b0Rn ! http://imageshack.com/a/img401/3523/vzsc.png
Message edited by F00ty_R3b0rn - Wednesday, 06-Nov-2013, 8:21 PM
Looks pretty good to me, It will surely make people get these spells more often. Couldn't really say if they are too op or not without trying them in game with the changes tho.
No damage stun and drain would have been op especially in team play. Cause then everyone gonna use drain as a free stun + life steal.
Then if the actual drain life was good why none is using it ?
because it takes too much to use it, u need ur team to help u surround and stun. all teams are shit, there were only a few actual teams that played well together. the stun was supposed to be like 1 second, so u could get atleast taht much drain and time to use units to surround. http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
Looks pretty good to me, It will surely make people get these spells more often. Couldn't really say if they are too op or not without trying them in game with the changes tho.
Yeah i guess this is good starting point but I can be wrong (I think that way would be more efficient as all the other ways). Have to be tested in game then. Current CHF APM ! The Legend is R3b0Rn ! http://imageshack.com/a/img401/3523/vzsc.png
1k mana transfer @ 16 seconds is too much, should be less mana
425 hp transfer is pretty useless, health stone is better(your storm bolt example is different, as this is only taking 425 from opponent and giving it to you causing only 425 damage to ur opponent.
the lower levels are crap. death coil does 75 damage lvl 1 vs 50 damage(hp transfer) with an 11 second cool down)
Added (2013-11-06, 8:03 PM) --------------------------------------------- if u dont agree with a stun, how about purge effect or slow effect instead?
1k mana transfer @ 16 seconds is too much, should be less mana
I find even mana burn useless. Only 1k mana from 16 sec? So much better to do 950 mana drain and 950+ (banish stacks) health drain in 0 sec better.....LOL And even mana burn is almost never used. Sorry but this "mana drain" spell will always be useless.....
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425 hp transfer is pretty useless, health stone is better(your storm bolt example is different, as this is only taking 425 from opponent and giving it to you causing only 425 damage to ur opponent.
I would rather take death pact. I think level 1 death pact might be more useful than this level 6 health drain. (No offense but death pact is pretty decent. Full hp + Full mana + Instant Unit Kill (: And even that "death pact" is known to be top 3 WORST spells in game ^^
What I say is Life drain should have the effect of like.....STUN + AOE EFFECT + MORE Mana drain when casted, should silence the enemy while being drained AND have SUPER slow movement (like level 6 cold strike ^^)
TBH. Both of these spells are gonna suck no matter what. Same with some other spells like "ZoZ" which I realized from experience that it can't even kill a loner archer with level 6. :l
Life drain: <==== WAY better to take rain of fire if your considering using a spell with roots, stuns, newts, etc. (BTW. Rain of Fire = Just as bad as raging storm...and we all know how much that sucks :] )
Life Drain Buffs Needed: Acid bomb effect. Upon using the spell, after the enemy has become released, his hero would take some damage over time and the enemy hero would GAIN health over time. Pull back the enemy hero halfway when being "stringed." So that this stupid spell lasts more than 0.1 second. Seriously, everyone escapes this spell the moment it is casted :l (and some minor aoe effect so that i can kill some low hp footies^^)
Mana drain BUFF needed: THE ONE THAT SUCKS THE MOST OUT OF ALL CHF. ARGUABLY CRAPPIER THAN THE SPELL THE WIZARD HAS. AT LEAST WIZARD HAS SPELL SHIELD, MIST, WINDWALK, SLEEP, PURGE WITH IT ^^ <===== Silence enemy hero moment it is casted and after enemy escapes spell, for 3-5 seconds, enemy's mana automatically drops like drilliance aura Enemy hero should be slowed...like purge i guess? I mean c'mon! Chain lightning is already OP and IT has a purge. :L When casted, your hero gets less damage from spells. (idk, 15% reduced damage?) Prohibit enemy hero from drinking mana potion while spell casted <= THIS, on any of the 2 will FAIRLY balance the spells to be in semi-op class
and btw ... Do something about rain of fire, raging storm, ZoZ, warp portal, evasion, drunken brawler, howl of terror, and a couple more These....unless you have high knowledge of chf....... are super USELESS. AOE AND HEROKILL AND UNHOLY AURA IS R4PE IN CHF. NO SKILLS NEEDED!
and before you guys complain, realize mana burn stacks with banish Mana burn can hit like 1300 damage with banish with 950 mana off ... and even THAT is not enough requirement for people to use it instead of other hk spells. Also realize that this spell has LONG aoe projection....still not good enough for it to be abused like some "certain" spells. Imagine banish + acid bomb + tichmeh + howl of terror + mana burn....1 shot herokill <3 .... (so inefficient btw)
Added (2013-11-07, 12:31 PM) --------------------------------------------- And btw, INCREASE price of MANA DRAIN and HP DRAIN Seriously, we already "got" the overpowered pet. We don't need another overpowered stuff
And the vault in middle gives TOO MUCH MANA PER SECOND. TOO MUCH We should be FORCING players to SPEND A LOT buying mana items as a penalty for using overpowered unbalanced spells
Mana in regular ladder is GOLD. You misuse it = G Mana in chf is worse than a penny...if that's possible => You waste it then....you still got full mana LOL
Message edited by RosarioVampireZ - Thursday, 07-Nov-2013, 11:32 AM
Do something about rain of fire, raging storm, ZoZ, warp portal, evasion, drunken brawler, howl of terror, and a couple moreThese....unless you have high knowledge of chf....... are super USELESS. AOE AND HEROKILL AND UNHOLY AURA IS R4PE IN CHF. NO SKILLS NEEDED!
and before you guys complain, realize mana burn stacks with banish Mana burn can hit like 1300 damage with banish with 950 mana off ...
Lol yeah you right. I don't know if it's even possible to buff properly rain of fire + Zoz + immolation. They aren't made for chf. Well banish + mana burn is the best combo. No damage reduce. But same hotkey.
Mana burn is actually not bad. I'm using it. It's just need a better range because for now players have time to cast all their spells on you (due to a short range of mana burn) then you can finally cast mana burn (if you aren't dead).
However I really think it's possible to buff properly siphon mana and life drain. Just need "some" adjustements and HAVE TO be tested in game. I guess new strategy could emerg (by getting in a team siphon mana and mana burn = could block aoe and stuns of the other teams) if you buff range mana burn and give a SUPER good range for siphon mana (like range of firebolt). So your opponent couldn't escape that siphon mana drain and the guy who has siphon mana take no risk (It's gonna be already hard for him to lvl up with siphon mana). And yeah maybe reduce my inital CD for mana drain. Current CHF APM ! The Legend is R3b0Rn ! http://imageshack.com/a/img401/3523/vzsc.png
i think rain of fire is ok, it only hurts enemy units, so it doesnt matter how u cast it(not sure on the damage tho) raging storm, its cool to use, not sure on the damage(i usually have some rockets and cast flame strike before using it when i do, so it kills units fast, cast reverse of course) its also effective against spell breakers in ftd
Added (2013-11-07, 9:07 PM) --------------------------------------------- but yeah, i agree with rosa on the drains needing some buffs, currently the only way to make them effective is by using newts and other shit to surround and even then its still weak, fun to use tho. no1 ever did the lasso, life and mana drain with me like i wanted(just for looks, lol)
Added (2013-11-11, 5:34 PM) --------------------------------------------- so, whats the plan then? how are these going to be buffed?
Siphon mana : Lvl 1 : 60 mana steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 5 Lvl 2 : 150 mana steal + CD = 11,25 + Mana costs 10 Lvl 3 : 250 mana steal + CD = 12,25 + Mana costs 15 Lvl 4 : 400 mana steal + CD = 13,75 + Mana costs 20 Lvl 5 : 700 mana steal + CD = 15 + Mana costs 50 Lvl 6 : 1000 mana steal + CD = 16,25 + Mana costs 90
I don't get it. what are those value mean? anyway I didn't read others post but my opinon about these two spells is "fusion" which I asked like 2years before. Just keep each of their value but mix it to 1 spell, name as "Drain", so it can drain both mana and life at once. I know other wc3 custom map already have this one so it isn't impossible to mix it.
at any point instant steal is unnecessary cause chf already have similar spells such as death pact and mana burn.
Rest in Peace Rookies
Message edited by SOUNDWAVES - Monday, 11-Nov-2013, 6:32 PM
. So feel free to give your point of view !
mm I think we need Reduction of magic just For heros 
