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Forum » CHF Development and Discussion » Idea Factory » 4.1 Balance changes #2

4.1 Balance changes #2

Gagamel

Date: Sunday, 01-Feb-2015, 7:20 AM | Message # 1

Hero

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Sorry i did not write this in hundulu, maybe someone can translate.

General Balance Changes:
Heroes:Basically there are 3 types of heroes in wc3: Strength-, intelligence-, and
agility based ones. In general the strength based heroes should be the ones
with the most hit points but the lowest mana (!). The agility based heroes
should be the one with the second most hit points (!) the second lowest mana
and the highest attack speed (!) and the intelligence based ones should be the
one with the highest mana and the weakest hit points.

Right now the agility heroes are the weakest heroes in the game (played as
melee heroes) because they have too low hit points and some range agility
heroes have a too slow attack speed. For example i_c_e has a basic attack speed
of 1.78 at level 1 while the attack speed of the intelligence hero edge is at
1.15 at level 1. To solve this issue the attack speed of heroes like the i_c_e,
the dark ranger and the potm should be increased. Range agility heroes should
have a faster attack speed then range intelligence heroes but a lower attack
speed than mele agility heroes. I think something between 1.25 and 1.5 at level
1 would be fine. Depending if the hero has lots of life and mana or not. So
i_c_e should get a faster attack speed like 1.25 because it has only 225 mana
at level 1 and the potm should get a lower attack speed like 1.5 because it has
270 mana at level 1.

For another example: Hybrid heros
like the sea brawler (naga hero) have more mana and life and a higher attack
speed than I_c_e. So basically you can say that the sea brawler is with its 675
hit points his 270 mana and his attack speed of 1.60 superior to i_c_e with its
550 hit points 225 mana and attack speed of 1.78 superior in any way. To solve
those balance problems the i_c_e hero should get inferior to the sea brawler in
at least one of this attributes which should be the attack speed in my opinion.

Of course you don t have to look
only at the heroes on level 1 but also look at their development while leveling
up (how much int, agi and strength they gain each level). But going into detail
here for every hero would take a lot of time and I think my argument has been
understood at this point so I will move to the next issue which is the items.

Items: Onthe one hand agility heroes are the weakest one in the game but on the other
hand they are the ones they can grow the most by buying items. If you buff
melee agility heros with some hit points and the % of critical strike (what should be done!) you have to make suretoo that they don t get overpowered by items. Right now the only item which
gives them an imbalanced advantage are the claws of attack +20. For example
claws of attack +20 damage costs 500 gold while claws of attack + 100 costs
4500 gold. Of course you can say to get free inventory slots should cost some
gold but if you buy the ulti claws (compared to the claws +20) you pay 3000
gold for 40 damage and 2 inventory slots. While you pay only 1000 gold to gain
+40 damage and no inventory slots if you stack up your damage with claws +20.
Which means you pay 1000 gold for every free inventory slot by comparison which
if far too much. To solve these issue claws of attack should cost like 700 gold
while the ulti-claws should cost like 4000 gold.

The most important item (or at least
the most used item) in the game is the scroll of town portal. At this point I
don t understand why there are still modes where it’s possible to accumulate
those scrolls by putting them out of your inventory and repicking your hero. If
you gain like 10 town portal scrolls this way it pretty much makes you
invincible for the rest of the game if you have a little hero control (I talk
about hero control and not about micro at this point because most player use
one hero only).
The Item power of the priests should
cost less and be available earlier in the game

Recently there have been a lot of
complains about playing one hero only is more effective than playing units and
micro. There are several reasons why you can win with one hero only in many
cases:
1) a hero kill does not give you as
much gold like to kill a lot of units with aoe spells (aoe spells are the ones
you can farm the most gold with specially if there are some beginners in game
who don t burn their own units)
2) a lot of town portals at a low
price, free boots of speed, windwalk and divine shield make it very easy to hit
and run.
3) There are cheap ways to protect
your base from units like frost-/canon towers or rune of shielding.

So to make micro more important in
the game there need to be some changes:
1) A hero kill should give some more
gold or unit kills should give you less gold.
2) You should only gain one free
scroll of town portal at the beginning. The price of the scroll of town portal
should be increased from 175 gold through to 250 gold. è 500 gold for 2 scrolls of tp.
3) There need to be some changes in
the tower system:

Tower system:
Frost tower: it is the cheapest and
most useful tower in the game. The stun is of the frost tower is the only tower
ability to stun your opponents in front of your base with a long range from the
early game on which makes it a little too strong for 300 gold. Either the frost
tower should cost a bit more like 500 gold or the stun ability should be
removed from it and added to the arcane tower instead.

Arcane tower: the arcane tower is a little
overpriced because it has a too little range to protect your allies’ bases and
to protect your base from range units. So it can be outmicroed completely just
by killing the other bases of your team first and by the smoke screen of the
renegade wizard. There are several possibilities to buff the arcane tower:
1) Increase the range
2) Move the stun ability from the
frost tower to the arcane tower
3) Decrease the gold cost of the
arcane tower
4) add some mana and a dispel
ability to it (not a too strong one of course, like one with barely enough mana
for 4 charges or something like that)
5) Make it possible to upgrade the
arcane tower for some gold into a tower that has some of the above.

Arcane tower of terror: This one is
to overpriced. If you waste 8000 gold it slows down the tech of your base too
much. It can only attack a single target. Yes it has a stun and a strong
dispel, but I think something like 5000 gold should be a better price for it.
Moreover the building time of this tower should be increased.

Spells:
1) Spells that need a buff:
In general spells that can be
interrupted and make your hero an easy target should have a stronger effect
than spells that cannot be interrupted or have a faster casting time. For
example blizzard should be stronger than flame strike and healing spray should
be stronger than heal wave.

Possible changes healing spray:
Reduce the amount of waves but increase the amount of healed damage:

Spells that can be casted from a
high distance should be weaker than spells that you can cast only from a low
distance. The stun of imaple should be decreased while the stun of war stomp
should be increased.

Possible changes war stomp:
Increase the stun against heroes up
to 5 sec at level 6 and increase the range of the spell with every level (I
don’t know if that has been done already if yes ignore the second part).

brilliance aura, (there are too many
more effective mana sources in the game which makes it weak) I like the idea to
combine it with the mana reducing aura from roystorm.
Siffon mana and live drain are too
weak too because there are many spells to interrupt it. I would like to see
them combined into one spell as well.

Silence (hero ability): I think it’s
kind of a joke that a rat for 225 gold has a stronger silence spell than a hero
for 1900 gold…

Soul burn: This spell needs a huge
buff for sure. Increase duration and dps.

2) Spells that need to become weaker
Serpent wards need to get weaker in
the early game (on low level è reduce damage) and stronger in the late game(on high level è addsome hp)

Carrion Beetles on level 6 (20 is
just too much è 15would be enough for sure)

Black arrow: This spawns too many
units in early game. It would be more balanced if it spawns just one ghoul that
gets stronger by leveling up black arrow.

Chain lightning: remove the purge
ability out of the spell (it’s not even in the description at the spell shop),
make it weaker on high level
Mass teleport: decrease the amount
of units you can teleport at each level.

Avatar of Vengeance: This is the
strongest ultimate in the game right now. The spawns should not have chaos
damage, the cool down to spawn them should be increased, the duration of the
avatar needs to be decreased, and the dispel ability should be removed.

Death tower. Decrease the hit points
and the duration at all levels.

3)Spells that should not be used in
combination because its overpowered and/or destroys the fun for other players
(just like critical strike and vamp aura): divine shield and transmute, wind
walk and earth quake / stampede.

4)Spell that need to be added:
chemical rage (alchemist ability), Life Link (ghost walker ability as a hero
spell)

Base vault:You don’t need the deadly wards at the base shop in at the late game. Remove
them and add the scroll of town portal to them instead. It is the most
important item in the game and can only be bought in the middle which makes it
difficult to get when some players are camping in the mid to gain map control.

Staff of saving is too expensive:
500 gold should be enough, if you have to buy the base vault just for this item
only you still would pay 850 gold (350for vault and 500 for staff).

Creep shop:
Increase Gold for Killing Golems: In
the early game it’s harder to kill a golem then to kill heroes. But you don t
get rewarded for killing a golem anyway because it gives you like 100 gold when
you kill. Killing a golem should at least give 250 gold.
Chaos damage should be removed from
most of the creeps you can buy it is just imbalanced nothing more to say.
The hit points or the sea turtle are
way too high and the movement speed is too dam low. Decrease the hit points by
500 and increase the movement speed of this unit.
Remove magic immunity from blank
golem (it has enough hit points and is already strong enough without magic
immunity) and add it to goatzilla instead.
Decrease the effect of area and the
duration of silence from rats. I already said the silence of this creep is
stronger than the hero spell silence.

Balance recording to Tech and main building:
The first
hit point upgrade in the human tech tree is way too strong. It gives +150 or 200
hit points to all your units for 100 gold only while the next upgrades give you
#45 hit points for double the amount of gold. If you want to make this game
more user-friendly for new players you should make the game mechanic more
transparent and not implant imbalances like this. Or at least add the information
at the tech tree how much you get for your gold if it variants from one upgrade
to another. I am not sure if there is more bullshit like this included to the
game. Oh wait there is. It’s the stats code bullshit that gives you extra gold
and imbalanced heroes like old blood for people with code generator. Yes this
should be removed as well.
Undead t3
is way to weak against aoe. It should spawn other units.
Elentien
tier 5 is way too weak against aoe. Seriously here you spend 4000 gold to gain
units with 500 hp. So basically you spend 4000 gold to give the opponents free
xp and lose the game. Even with hp upgrades still have not enough hit points
to stand against a single hero with aoespells.

Gameplay:
Am I the only one that shares the opinion thatits stupid that after mass every team has to build a canon tower to burn his
own units? I think it would be much smarter too just add a command that turns
the spawn of units at your main base off.
Add
waypoints to the main base so the units you spawn walk to a point you choose
automatically.

if u play a chess...like u want, u dont play the game u play a game...but not chess -Feelnoob

Web-Ghost

Date: Sunday, 01-Feb-2015, 9:18 AM | Message # 2

Head Administrator

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Quote Gagamel (

)

Gameplay: Am I the only one that shares the opinion thatits stupid that after mass every team has to build a canon tower to burn his
own units? I think it would be much smarter too just add a command that turns
the spawn of units at your main base off.
Add
waypoints to the main base so the units you spawn walk to a point you choose
automatically.

well i did not read the whole book yet but i did read this part
if you add spawn off/on people will mostly keep it off so if they are no units than no feed and every1 will hk only
+ it will make the game super long

Added (01-Feb-2015, 9:18 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote Gagamel (

)

human tech tree is way too strong

not really

[img][/img]

AL_GI

Date: Sunday, 01-Feb-2015, 10:14 AM | Message # 3

Zombie Pirate

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Frost tower slow too much try to reduce it.

Call me "GOD”

︻芫══一 (—_—)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hassanrizvi10

Date: Sunday, 01-Feb-2015, 10:56 AM | Message # 4

Grunt

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I like some of ur point but not all, it will not make the difference if we have frost for 300 instead of 500 because it's damage is not so gud and it's only useful to stun i think arcane damage should be reduced and it's range should increase a bit that would be better

Added (01-Feb-2015, 10:56 AM)
---------------------------------------------
Sorry a small mistake i mean frost for 500 instead of 300

KinG_xD

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