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Forum » CHF Development and Discussion » Heros, Abilities, and Items » Fix mindrape bug: can be used on golem 15 000 gold
Fix mindrape bug: can be used on golem 15 000 gold
MrDark_DevilDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 12:45 PM | Message # 16
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Quote ic3dt3a ()
you cared enough to entertain me with a response
JajAjA cX ok 
Quote O_o]-PrincipV ()
haha that is easy -.-
ye mass messi




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FirNesSDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 1:07 PM | Message # 17
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Quote ic3dt3a ()
firness, its not op. it is the best counter to nubs who pool and put all their money on 1 item, be it ward of healing, penguins, golem.a single ult you say? hwo about death n decay, explosion, and call of the gods?

u guys need to stop QQing about this spell.
To have Call of the gods you need to get bill, which is quite bad except when you got darks. Death n decay pretty sucks, since a single stun or root can cancel it. Explosion has been nerfed against darks, and if you use the potion to have 0 cooldown, you can kill a granite golem for example, thats true, but if your enemy is good he will use recall before this. Plus explosion quite sucks as first ult.

My point is that MR is op in early, mid and late game. Explosion sucks hard in early, and is only decent in late. Call of the gods can't be taken on your first hero, otherwise you won't even acceed to the late game.
Druids are op in early and mid, but get really worse in late. Same for death tower and infernal. Donation is good in late, xmute too, etc. My point is that most of ults give you an advantage in a moment of the game, but MR is maybe the only one that is always good. It gets countered by amulet of recall yes, but as it was the case in MrDark's game, you can get basekilled by your own golem before the control comes back to you.

I don't want to remove MR or anything. Just want to increase cooldown. wink


 
ic3dt3aDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 1:38 PM | Message # 18
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Quote FirNesS ()
but if your enemy is good he will use recall before this


this says it all right here. he was playing against a formidable opponent, not the new players he is accustomed to.

you mention the counters to death n decay, i usually use this while invisible with treeants + beetles to help hide my hero a bit(within the mess of units, avoiding roots). i also try to have spell block amulet.
call of gods kills penguins at level 1, whereas u need 2 explosion casts to kill them.

Quote FirNesS ()
It gets countered by amulet of recall yes, but as it was the case in MrDark's game, you can get basekilled by your own golem before the control comes back to you.

if you're an idiot, net it a couple times and you should be fine. it also helps if you're not TIER 0.

bill is an excellent hero, if u know what you're doing. most people are unable to use units, this ISNT a HERO ARENA, this is CHF. if you want to just use 1 unit(hero) go play dota or any of those other hero arenas.


http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
 
FirNesSDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 4:36 PM | Message # 19
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Bill sucks because this game is only about AoEs, AoEs and AoEs now. I've tryed a few times to micro some units, teching with like unholy aura lasso + 1 aoe, and its almost impossible. Ppl with Flamestrike, nova, carrion and so on fck it up. So no, Bill is not viable.
Dude your D&D start only works against noobs, a rat + 2 frost towers are enough to counter it..

Oh and about micro, if I were still playing I would probably be top 5 in microing in chf, this is not the prob. The prob is that MR can give you a huge advantage in early, as you can use people's teleports, kill their heroes and so earn gold, earn experience, and making them die, so that they cant really earn any gold for a while. In late, it counters pengs and 15k golem, you can also MR a hero that has wards of gods and use these, etc.


 
ic3dt3aDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 4:49 PM | Message # 20
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Quote FirNesS ()
Oh and about micro, if I were still playing I would probably be top 5 in microing in chf, this is not the prob. The prob is that MR can give you a huge advantage in early, as you can use people's teleports, kill their heroes and so earn gold, earn experience, and making them die, so that they cant really earn any gold for a while. In late, it counters pengs and 15k golem, you can also MR a hero that has wards of gods and use these, etc.


i dont mean to talk shit, but if u dont play, why bother making suggestions? if you dont play, you don't know the current gamestyles, strats, and other methods of winning. with bill, for example, you can tech + golem; golems are spell immune so whats the problem.

man, flamestrike kills my units fast, it should be nerfed. altar of god kills all units within sight, but only cost 14500(or w.e price) how is this fair? how can it kill 2 night terrors, 2 sets of penguins and all heros? thats not fair.

all i have to say is:
learn to play
play against good opponents, not new players. this lets you see your weaknesses.
actaully use creeps and other items, dont stick to the same boring builds.
have fun.


http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
 
RosarioVampireZDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 5:04 PM | Message # 21
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Quote FirNesS ()
Bill sucks because this game is only about AoEs, AoEs and AoEs now.
Bill sucks as first hero. Yap, that's true.
For it to be viable first hero, you better have stacked team.... lol
But as late game heros when people can afford 15k golems, its pretty r4pe smile

Quote FirNesS ()
Dude your D&D start only works against noobs, a rat + 2 frost towers are enough to counter it..
Unfortunately, this is true. D&D is kinda pathetic...it never works nowadays
(I rather get forcefield + newt and drop some deadly wards around him or use explosion/mr with deadly wards)

Quote FirNesS ()
Oh and about micro, if I were still playing I would probably be top 5 in microing in chf, this is not the prob.
Ehh...I disagree lol

Quote FirNesS ()
The prob is that MR can give you a huge advantage in early, as you can use people's teleports, kill their heroes and so earn gold, earn experience, and making them die, so that they cant really earn any gold for a while. In late, it counters pengs and 15k golem, you can also MR a hero that has wards of gods and use these, etc.
I think we all know how op mindrape is. Look at how many past threads we had on nerfing mindrape.
Even the very concept "control someone's hero" is op itself
Ehhh, we can't change the concept, so just change how you play the hand.

Quote ic3dt3a ()
all i have to say is: learn to play
play against good opponents, not new players. this lets you see your weaknesses.
actaully use creeps and other items, dont stick to the same boring builds.
have fun.
TBH
It's the enemy's fault 100% for not knowing about mindrape hero.
This is a stratedgy game. Not Dota for god sakes.
It's pathetic they didn't even realize Roystorm had 2nd hero.

Quote ic3dt3a ()
if you're an idiot, net it a couple times and you should be fine. it also helps if you're not TIER 0.
Net + spam deadly wards and frost towers and
DIVINE SHIELD THINGY ON YOUR BASE (how come no one thought of this? O.o It helps on TEMPORARY spells like MINDRAPE LEVEL 1)
*they shulda used divine shield thingy on base and quickly put the golem on zepelin. and then sleep roystorm's 2nd hero. THERE YOU GO. 100% counter for LOW price. LOL

Quote ic3dt3a ()
this says it all right here. he was playing against a formidable opponent, not the new players he is accustomed to.
It's cause these stackers never play anything other than short games.
They have really next to no idea how chf works. :l

This is why you should learn game mechanics.
Long games, game mechanics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills
sigh (ofc, u can always mh lol)


 
MrDark_DevilDate: Sunday, 06-Apr-2014, 7:28 PM | Message # 22
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Quote RosarioVampireZ ()
It's cause these stackers never play anything other than short games.
lol ,, rosa my elo mrdark is soloing ... btw my fault cos i buy that golem if darks cos i make sure team 4 will not trasslut darks ... lol 
Quote ic3dt3a ()
learn to play
Lol ,, ok i will learn hahahha when you write it i lough so match u beat me only ftd Cx remmber !!!

Added (06-Apr-2014, 7:14 PM)
---------------------------------------------
Btw i win inhouse game that soudnwave buy golem like me and he fail cos he buy golem but i wait for darks and win ... so is this golem useless or wasting gold ?

Added (06-Apr-2014, 7:28 PM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote FirNesS ()
but as it was the case in MrDark's game, you can get basekilled by your own golem before the control comes back to you.
firness it's ok lose it was our fault ,, but i post for that golem 15000 i think bond have to fix it ... right ? 

because i see this golem waste gold only even on -ai mode pc buy it but it did nothing Xd




gigasus91 : Im Adam bitch .
 
FirNesSDate: Monday, 07-Apr-2014, 0:49 AM | Message # 23
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Quote ic3dt3a ()
i dont mean to talk shit, but if u dont play, why bother making suggestions? if you dont play, you don't know the current gamestyles, strats, and other methods of winning. with bill, for example, you can tech + golem; golems are spell immune so whats the problem.man, flamestrike kills my units fast, it should be nerfed. altar of god kills all units within sight, but only cost 14500(or w.e price) how is this fair? how can it kill 2 night terrors, 2 sets of penguins and all heros? thats not fair.

all i have to say is:
learn to play
play against good opponents, not new players. this lets you see your weaknesses.
actaully use creeps and other items, dont stick to the same boring builds.
have fun.

Lol. The current gamestyles? 4.1 isn't even really out, and I've still been playing 4.0 a loooot. So dafuq u sayin?
Then, altar is balanced cause it can get killed fcking easily, since it cannot be hidden in zepelins anymore. Learn to play against good opponents? Rofl. Dude. When I left chf I was probably around round 8/10, and I've surely been playing against more "pros" than you, don't say bs please.

Anyway, my point is still that everything is counterable except MR.
Btw if you MR a unit or a hero and the guy you MRed has a 2nd hero and MR his unit/hero back, what happens?


 
MrDark_DevilDate: Monday, 07-Apr-2014, 5:42 PM | Message # 24
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Quote FirNesS ()
FirNesS IS pro
 1000% CX




gigasus91 : Im Adam bitch .
 
ic3dt3aDate: Monday, 07-Apr-2014, 9:35 PM | Message # 25
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Quote FirNesS ()
Lol. The current gamestyles? 4.1 isn't even really out, and I've still been playing 4.0 a loooot. So dafuq u sayin?
Then, altar is balanced cause it can get killed fcking easily, since it cannot be hidden in zepelins anymore. Learn to play against good opponents? Rofl. Dude. When I left chf I was probably around round 8/10, and I've surely been playing against more "pros" than you, don't say bs please.


the response and the act that you took offense to what was directed at the OP shows what an utter fool(and may i add noob) that you are.
sure, anybody can play against "pros", you're just as bad and delusional as adam. you rated ur micro 8/10? BA JAJAJA, good joke man.

yes, i understand the new version hasnt been released, but the current game strats CAN be used in 4.1 still.

to answer ur MR question, he cant MR him back, its busy/not a valid target.


http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
 
FirNesSDate: Tuesday, 08-Apr-2014, 0:36 AM | Message # 26
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Oh didn't know you had become a dumb ass sorry

 
Adam_CZDate: Tuesday, 08-Apr-2014, 6:09 AM | Message # 27
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Mindrape really is OP. You can say something "you are stupid because you didnt know he have second hero with mindrape". But we really didnt know. He had this hero in zeppelin maybe 1 hour and he was waiting for golem/penguins. If you will read chat log this game you will see i said "use rats reveal and search everywhere maybe he has second hero with MR". I saw zeppelin but i didnt know there is hero.

In my opinion is bug that you can use this ulti on golem 15000 gold. Well MR is ultimate spell but same for xmute or charm and you cant use these spells on many units. If you cant remove mindrape just fix this duration on golem. Roystom had hero with MR level 1 but he was controlling this golem 1 minute (he used MR then potion of focus then buy time to think and suicide with arcane tower and fast revieve).

Anyway firstime i agree with ic3dt3a that MR is maybe good ulti for counter noobs who use all gold for buy only 1 item (penguins, golem, ward of gods, altar of gods) instead tech darks. For example penguins cost 14 500 gold and they are duration 120 seconds. But if your enemy has 3x rune (3 x 40 seconds duration) you cant even base kill tier 0 with penguins. Since now i will not buy these shit items anymore and tech only darks.
 
RosarioVampireZDate: Tuesday, 08-Apr-2014, 7:59 AM | Message # 28
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Quote Adam_CZ ()
Mindrape really is OP.
Quote RosarioVampireZ ()
I think we all know how op mindrape is. Look at how many past threads we had on nerfing mindrape.
I think most people in CHF know how op mindrape is. And yes, as much as we try to nerf it, the concept itself is un-nerfable unfortunately.

Quote Adam_CZ ()
You can say something "you are stupid because you didnt know he have second hero with mindrape". But we really didnt know. He had this hero in zeppelin maybe 1 hour and he was waiting for golem/penguins. If you will read chat log this game you will see i said "use rats reveal and search everywhere maybe he has second hero with MR". I saw zeppelin but i didnt know there is hero.
Isn't this you guy's fault? lol
Is it the game's fault for not being fair 1 game?

Quote Adam_CZ ()
In my opinion is bug that you can use this ulti on golem 15000 gold. Well MR is ultimate spell but same for xmute or charm and you cant use these spells on many units. I
In my opinion it's bug only a handful of ultimates are viable (All overpowered) and rest are next to sh1t

Quote Adam_CZ ()
If you cant remove mindrape just fix this duration on golem.
This I can agree with. If it's the 15k golem only. Yes, you could nerf the duration on it by a little.

Quote Adam_CZ ()
Roystom had hero with MR level 1 but he was controlling this golem 1 minute (he used MR then potion of focus then buy time to think and suicide with arcane tower and fast revieve).
Roystorm used his brain lol.
Roystorm spent around 6k to counter this golem for 1 minute
Mindrape (2k on hero + less exp on his main hero during mid game) + a couple peasants (give it 1.5k) + Potion of Focus (1.5k) + Fast revive item ult (~1k) = Give or take 6k. Actually, add in other necessary items
**I did not watch video but I am assuming he bought other things to help counter it.

So basically Roystorm spent more than 1/3 of what you spent to counter 15k golem briefly.
Imagine you had 1-2 rune of shielding. I think Roystorm woulda just gone broke then.
So yes, in this scenario, you had 100% chance of countering. So basically, it is your fault.
You could have used your main rune of shielding and then quickly send that peasant in invisible potion to another base and gotten another rune of shielding
Then ~700 gold coulda BEATEN Roystorm's ~6k.
***Isn't this concept MORE overpowered? lol

Quote Adam_CZ ()
Anyway firstime i agree with ic3dt3a that MR is maybe good ulti for counter noobs who use all gold for buy only 1 item (penguins, golem, ward of gods, altar of gods) instead tech darks. For example penguins cost 14 500 gold and they are duration 120 seconds. But if your enemy has 3x rune (3 x 40 seconds duration) you cant even base kill tier 0 with penguins. Since now i will not buy these shit items anymore and tech only darks.
Wasn't this the whole point of game from the start? Tech and win? That's why Bond kept trying to BALANCE game.
Dude, in past, everyone stayed tier 0 and got ToT and camped or stayed tier 1 and mass saved for pengs.
This is NOT supposed to be a winnable strat. It's pure bullsh1t.

Ward of Gods = Your hero should ALWAYS be in divine shield when having this item or inside zepelin. If not, you are plain 1000000% retard.
Penguins = It should easily be able to bk tier 0 even against mindrape. Actually, make your hero carry endurance aura item and you should be easily able to bk up to tier 2 even when 1 penguin is mindraped.
Golem = We all know Golem is useless. You get GOLEM if you UPGRADED ATTACK OR/AND YOU HAVE AURAS OR/AND YOU HAVE MORE THAN 1 TEAM TO BK
Altar of God = Let's be real. This thing can even kill 10000000000 J3bus ring heros. I think that's super op? Ehh? It got nerfed enough to point that people complain even with this very "theoretical concept", compared to nuke, it su3ks balls.
Tech only to darks = The whole point of game is to tech. And teching to darks cost WAY MUCH MORE MONEY than any of the things you mentioned above. rofl

Anyways, with this being said, I think DoTT needs nerf on base building damages.
I remember I lost 1 game against Adam's stack recently because Adam and his Adam's teammates decided to spam level 3 druid of talons in my building. Best part, because the CD is so short, expect invincible DoTT camping in your base 24/7.
Just repairing them all game took around 10k (just wtf) <= this was in small increments so no, I didn't have this much in start.
And moment I got out of money, I was bked by DoTT spam abuse. 

Let's see, peasants, OH THEY DIE RIGHT AWAY!
Let's see, Jammy, OH THEY DIE RIGHT AWAY! (especially with 3 DoTT users)
Let's see, heros, OH THEY DIE RIGHT AWAY!
Let's see, DoTT = give them aura and OMG ANY TIER DIES!
GASSSP, THEY OP :0
TOTALLY NOT SITUATIONAL. GASSSSP! (lloll)

But you guys all get it right? Imagine a stacked team with spam death towers or spammed DoTT or spammed transmute (they get tech so fast its not even funny)
You can see all these spells I mentioned are SUPER OVERPOWERED like mindrape (mindrape is EXTREMELY situational). Now let's look at every other ults. Hero Rez = Sh1t. Cosmic Fall = Sh1t. Rejuvenation = Sh1t. Vodoo = Sh1t.

So basically, except death tower, DoTT, transmute, and Mindrape, what other spells are viable? NONE
And guess what, these "viables" are overpowered BEYOND description.
And somehow, if you nerf these guys, they become 100% weaker than regular spells.
Regular spells > Ult spells....lol




Message edited by RosarioVampireZ - Tuesday, 08-Apr-2014, 8:06 AM
 
b3pDate: Wednesday, 09-Apr-2014, 3:56 AM | Message # 29
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Yeah nexsus spam whis druide too from the start to the end, druide cd sucks !

b3p
 
Adam_CZDate: Wednesday, 09-Apr-2014, 6:00 AM | Message # 30
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Quote RosarioVampireZ ()
So basically, except death tower, DoTT, transmute, and Mindrape, what other spells are viable? NONE

Yes i agree other ultimate spells except these spells are shit in normal mode. But dont forget there are other modes for example FTD.

Starfall, Thunderstorm, Sea of Flame or Aninate Death - these spells are best in FTD but shit in normal mode. And druids or mindrape is useless in FTD.

Added (09-Apr-2014, 6:00 AM)
---------------------------------------------
Druids are not OP ulti. You can dispell them very easy with few newts. And you cant do anything vs newts... for example you can try cyclone newt but your enemy will dispell cyclone with another newts and newts abolish dont have CD and they can use it non stop (until they have mana) but druids cyclone is in CD and you cant use it non stop. Also newt have resistant skin and spell reduction so even if you cyclone them this cyclone duration is only 3 or 4 seconds. And the most funny is that yamato canon level 2 which give 2000 dmg give to newt only 300 HP dmg.

 
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