I honestly want everyone to read this, and tell me what you think.
So i got thinking about this again after a year has pasted, one of the lamest strategies in the game is toming when you are already a higher level, just to ensure you keep complete dominance over the map with just your heros.
Buying tomes when you are already higher level is one of the top OP/imba strats there is in any footmen game.
The spells at these high artificially tomed levels throw off balance for everything, not only can you not compete with your own lower level heros to to come back or even get 1 hero kill. But this also renders many creeps prematurely useless and as well as tech.
Now think about this, after mass the winners with most gold will be level 6-7ish right? it takes 3k to get to lvl10-11 in order to stay way ahead and gain complete dominance over all other heros and units. This turns t0-t2 units into just feed. which allows them to keep dominance over the whole map. Now if this weren't possible things would have a little time to regulate and catch up and balance out and not allow aoe's to become OP too soon, but with this tome strat it takes that all away.
In order to counter this any other team that didnt win mass would have to throw 4350+ Gold at tech (which we all know they dont have and have like no chance of getting) Thats the only way the units wont be total feed to these lvl 11's running around so early in the game..
Now i've always hated this tome strat and have always thought it wrecked games so i most often dont tome unless completely necessary. I believe tomes were put into the game to help under lvl'd heros to catch up a bit not just for over leveled heros to become OP and wreck the game balance and mechanics.
This is the idea i came up with. I can make the rule set be, when a hero goes to tome and lvl up it can't be the highest level hero in the game. so if you are lvl 11 and everyone else is like lvl 7-8 you cant get to lvl 12 and your gold will be refunded. If you're lvl 7 you can tome to lvl 8 The only exception to this rule will be if you are lvl 10 or lvl 15. Then no matter what you will be allowed to lvl up to 11 or lvl 16.
Nothing sets a game father apart of pros and pubs than the leveling tome..
I think this sounds more than fair. Let me know your views on this.
So basically your gonna add a system that can accurately read this? (But leveling for an ultimate is an exception) So you're saying basically that if we're all the same level, 1 person cannot tome too get too level 8 when everyone is level 7? You should more or so scale this out (if ya know what I mean)
I like this idea but you're forgetting something you should have considered as a priority. It's not always the levels that count, it's the team. If the team makes the right choice vs 1 guy well he's fucked and he's going too need that tome too prevent that team from being able to do gay shit, and the fact that the 1 guy can't really progress no longer when he needs too because of what that other team has, pretty gay if you ask me. 3 level 8 people can kill a level 20 easily. I like but I also hate this idea. Its a good balancing way but then it's like you not giving anybody a right too progress ahead of their enemies when they've earned it. Also think about this, gives a bigger advantage for a stacked team.
Again scale this shit out more.
Added (2012-03-07, 8:19 PM) --------------------------------------------- For now I need to vote no not because it's a cheap win but because it's like taking away a right for someone to do this when they need too for precaution or earned it.
yea i see your point on that, with a bit more details and thinking i think this idea might really help a lot. just gotta work out all the angles and possibilities first
I AGREE you are totally right, i hate it when ppl goes aoes and ww and tome till lvl 16 then rape everything, i can't say I've never done it but theres some people who always do it for example- I-connect or flame(deathknight) i think its a nooby strat cuz once you win mass a pub team has no chance against you timing, so yeah make it so you can't tome if u r the one with the highest lvl
K so I love legals tome of experience idea but heres what should be added for it.
A system that reads, the higher the level and you buy that experience tome, the less experience you get. Only exception is if you are level 5,10,or 15 (for ultimates) you get an entire level.
u should just have it where ppl type -tome to enable toming, requires 5 ppl to vote it, not sure how ur gonan contorl this tho cause to get ppl to vote -nwd i trick them into typing it. legals idea works best tho, http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
i see your point with a guy being alone vs a stacked team and needing to maybe tome to get ahead or whatever and i can see that argument as being fair so maybe what i could do is do a few checks.. if the person has no team mates still in the game then i can let that by pass the rule of not being able to tome if hes the highest lvl already, then thats a bit more ok. Im just trying to stear away from the stacked team abusing it like all those examples listed above. And sometimes even if it limits a few things mildly if the greater benefit out weighs that it might still be worth it.
Quote (Cheesy-Gordia)
gives a bigger advantage for a stacked team.
thats how it is already in it current state. the stacked team has the huge advantage with tomes.
Quote (ic3dt3a)
remove tomes AND ssd
i thought about that at first but it seems too unreasonable, too much of a change on the normal game, and ssd being gone would just make pubs quit and rage, just make sure your red and not vote it lol
Quote (Cheesy-Gordia)
A system that reads, the higher the level and you buy that experience tome, the less experience you get. Only exception is if you are level 5,10,or 15 (for ultimates) you get an entire level.
legals idea is not too bad.. ..but theres still a lot of problems for it, would you pay 1000 gold for 500xp? would you ever bother toming unless you were lvl5 10 or 15? and not get your months worth getting a whole level? wouldnt this leave the same problems in place except that the dominating team getting a whole lvl they just get a smaller boost? and wouldnt that further cripple the losing team by them wasting a 1000 gold to barley catch up in lvl to the far ahead team? its an ok idea but more holes in it that i can see how to fix with the 500xp tome.
legals idea is not too bad.. ..but theres still a lot of problems for it, would you pay 1000 gold for 500xp? would you ever bother toming unless you were lvl5 10 or 15? and not get your months worth getting a whole level? wouldnt this leave the same problems in place except that the dominating team getting a whole lvl they just get a smaller boost? and wouldnt that further cripple the losing team by them wasting a 1000 gold to barley catch up in lvl to the far ahead team? its an ok idea but more holes in it that i can see how to fix with the 500xp tome.
Well you're obviously gonna do something and it would be more fair.
Im not saying a like 500xp im saying like a fraction of the current xp number you need.
Example: Level 5 to 6, idk how much exp it would take for a level 5 too get too level 6 but he could buy a fraction of what he needs like 1/2. As he levels more and lets say this guy is now level 12 and wants exp for 13, he would only get 1/7th of the exp needed for that level. Get mah drift?
thats how it is already in it current state. the stacked team has the huge advantage with tomes.
Idk if you forgot how long it takes too get a tome. But not all three members can get it at the same time... Only 1 guy will over level. But doing this idea of yours Gives an advantage for stacked teams. If they behind they can easily catch up and fuck shit up.
POOLING DOES 10X MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think pooling is much easier to counter than this topic.. at least your making more xp and gold per kill when they attack you, when heros are 3x your lvl you wont be killing them and making gold or any xp.
the xp thing would work to a point.. but it would be very good early lvls and very weak/overpriced/pointless late lvls so not sure thats the best way to go with it but if ppl dont mind that idea could try it..
i see what your saying with a stacked team being able to catch up by toming becuz they are able too being the lower lvl and the higher lvl cant stay ahead becuz he is unable to tome.. but if 1 guy is doing that well he can probably just buy items and not need to tome anyway if hes already ahead. I very rarly see this used in this way. 9/10 times its used by pros to abuse and lvl way ahead to where they win the game by default becuz no one can do anything for 20 mins till they die.
I got thinking about it when me shadow and st4x played earlier today. we raped the mass then the rest of the game and stax tomed and was like 6-7 lvls ahead of everyone while me and shadow were normal w/o toming and like 3-4 lvls ahead, the under dogs couldnt aford to tome at that point anyway so it wouldnt have mattered. This is the main example im talking about with this idea.
and like i said its just an idea for now, if you can think of other conditions that make sense then go ahead and say them. I can probably make it happen
the xp thing would work to a point.. but it would be very good early lvls and very weak/overpriced/pointless late lvls so not sure thats the best way to go with it but if ppl dont mind that idea could try it..
i see what your saying with a stacked team being able to catch up by toming becuz they are able too being the lower lvl and the higher lvl cant stay ahead becuz he is unable to tome.. but if 1 guy is doing that well he can probably just buy items and not need to tome anyway if hes already ahead. I very rarly see this used in this way. 9/10 times its used by pros to abuse and lvl way ahead to where they win the game by default becuz no one can do anything for 20 mins till they die.
I got thinking about it when me shadow and st4x played earlier today. we raped the mass then the rest of the game and stax tomed and was like 6-7 lvls ahead of everyone while me and shadow were normal w/o toming and like 3-4 lvls ahead, the under dogs couldnt aford to tome at that point anyway so it wouldnt have mattered. This is the main example im talking about with this idea.
and like i said its just an idea for now, if you can think of other conditions that make sense then go ahead and say them. I can probably make it happen
Im not liking the way you're seeing tomes. You see it as a way as op but yet you stated you don't use them ever. I mostly see it as a way too precautionise (yeah I just made a word) the situation so no bullshit will happen and all of the sudden you're behind.
Let me dig deeper. If it was reverse order IE tomes were stronger late levels. Well then that would be even worse. Early levels at late are like level 1-8. After that the tomes should be less and less in giving exp so the player doesn't abuse it too over level as you stated. Your idea for late is useless is true at a degree. You're missing something thats also common. People scepter nowadays and that gets them early level. Now reversing the order like I said, late levels getting stronger is retarded.
Im sticking to the higher the less situation because it actually makes sense. Its always easy too get early levels anyways but this exp thing could just be a support.
so you are leaning more towards the set xp tome instead of a level up tome then eh?
how about it can give enough xp to take a lvl 7 to a lvl 8 and then it just stays at that xp amount.. that way its good early and semi ok mid game and late game it depreciates in beneficial value, i dont mind that i suppose..
