LIST OF 4.0a/4.1 FIXES FOR BOND Don't flame in this thread, just discuss ideas so we can make the game better.
Spells: 1. It is simply unfair for one guy to get a hero like 'Cou', 'Captain Bond', 'Medivh' or 'Soundwaves', while the other guy is stuck with 'Far Seer' or 'Hulk' or 'The Blob'. Get rid of all the shitty heroes, or increase the number of -repicks you have to 5 instead of 3.
2. Make the amount of time that owls last longer, so you don't have to keep recasting them with your hero over and over again. Or reduce the cooldown time of their mana burn at lower levels...because owls SUCK level 1-5. They're only good at level six honestly. Plus nobody uses owls anyway, so even with this buff and it wouldn't make them overpowered at all.
3. Nerf forcefield. What we talked about on skype isn't enough, it still screws over people who tech a ton. Everyone in this community agrees that forcefield needs a serious nerf. Make it so the hero inside the forcefield isnt invulernable. Also make it so you can't be blocked inside the forcefield by people with wards and interchange.
4. Buff lava spawns (and maybe water elements a bit less) by increasing their HP and attack dps.
5. nerf treants. give them a little less HP so its easier to dispel/kill them. treants and forcefield are two of the most op things in 4.0
6. Increase mana burn casting distance so you can cast it without having to be right next to the other player
7. Increase forked lightning damage to 600 since it can't even hit units in fog anyway
8. Buff raging storm, it sucks.
9. Buff interchange levels 1-5 and make it so people can't interchange demolishers/people channelling earthquake (you probably already know about the interchange-earthquake "glitch"/strategy, but let me know if you dont and i can explain it more)
10. Why is cluster rockets so much worse than impale when they basically do the same thing (stun/aoe damage)? Buff cluster rockets a bit.
12. Buff frost arrows. if you've played ladder, this is one of the deadliest spells in the game. In chf it sucks because people just windwalk away from it. Either buff frost arrows so it gets rid of the windwalk effect, or increase its duration by 1-2 seconds for both heroes and units.
13. Searing arrows could use a buff too. I don't think i've ever seen anyone win a game with this spell. up the damage a little bit at all levels.
14. Healing spray...sucks. Just make it so it a non-channelling spell or make it so it casts faster (like you don't have to channel it for so long) and make it heal your own units twice as much as it heals the enemy. also increase the amount that it heals so its comparable to healing wave
15. Fix holy light tooltip so it says the actual amount of damage that the spell does (not 1500/2=750). It does more than 750 at max level.
16. Make it so drunken haze causes breath of fire to do way more damage, like twice as much as it does now. Nobody plays drunken haze breath of fire because you can do way more damage with two aoes. Make drunken haze + bof combo more appealing.
17. Druids are pretty much fine but the one problem is that there's no way to counter them other than dispel, but they have sooo much HP that they're impossible to dispel. Reduce druid HP so that you can dispel them more easily? dispelling level 3 druids feels like im trying to get rid of a ward of the gods (i'm exaggerating but you get my point)
18. Buff flame strike and make it as strong as blizzard is. right now at max level it only does 72*4.33 damage which = 311 damage (LOL) plus a little extra burn damage which is really negligable. Blizzard does 170*5=850 damage. Make flame strike do more damage, maybe 1.25 or 1.5 times as much as it does now.
19. Buff frost armor. give the unit some spell resistance as well as increased armor and the frost effect.
20, BUFF DEATH PACT...need i say more? This spell actually has a lot of potential if you buff it correctly. Make it so you can sacrifice any unit type, not just undead but all races. reduce the spell's cooldown time. increase the amount of hit points you get by 50-100%.
21. buff howl of terror at higher levels, but NOT AT LEVEL ONE OR TWO because it is OP in mass already
22. Buff shadow strike SLIGHTLY. Nerf death coil damage on shamans (or cooldown time) and heroes SLIGHTLY. Nerf storm bolt, flaming lasso and entangling roots stun time SLIGHTLY at level 6.
Tech: in terms of tech the fixes are pretty straightforward.. OP SHIT: Headhunters (they are tier 2 but do more damage than any tier 3 unit. and dont give me that BS about piercing vs normal attack type. headhunters are fucking OP), Tauren (reduce the effectiveness of pulverize) WEAK SHIT THAT NEEDS BUFF: Ghouls, Skeleton Warriors, Druids of the Talon, Skeletal Mages (A LOT).
more generally bond you need to understand thsi simple concept. Tier 1 should be units with least HP, DPS, and Armor. Tier 2 should have a little more, then tier 3, then tier 4. right now you have tier 2 units that are equal to tier 4 units in terms of damage. Fix this.
Other: 1. Increase the amount of HP and Armor that nuke has. most people get nuke as a counter to tech, but if you get a nuke and the opponent has darks they can just run in your base and pwn it in two seconds. hence nuke has become useless
2. Downgrade scout tower : At least give 75% reward money
3. Granite golem. The problem with granite is that every counter there is for it you have to choose before the game starts. All you need to do to fix granite is make it so he can't be recalled using amulet of recall. I don't know if this is possible in code but if it is do this. If not just increase stock cd and it will be balanced enough
4. Make it so no ww and no ds mode are done through a vote (like ssd, arts, ftd or other modes) and that they need over 50% votes
5. make it so all modes need 75% votes to pass instead of 50% (or just get rid of ssd mode, its not balanced at all and you admitted this)
Message edited by T-Swizzle - Wednesday, 30-May-2012, 5:43 PM
I like most of the ideas except if deathpact could target enemy units then maulers would have easy healing when they wanted.. also with the immoltation mana cost it isnt that bad.. if you get brilliance aura and staff then it can be really op with killing units and your mana wont go down, i find using blink and avatar with it work well. #CHFbecamedsucks
Adam_CZ "wildjap is the worsest player chf ever"
[-FTL-]RoyStoM "you never win me or win team ftl jajajajaj i god for game"
Message edited by Ticklemonster - Wednesday, 30-May-2012, 5:30 PM
I like most of the ideas except if deathpact could target enemy units then maulers would have easy healing when they wanted.. also with the immoltation mana cost it isnt that bad.. if you get brilliance aura and staff then it can be really op with killing units and your mana wont go down, i find using blink and avatar with it work well.
make g golems ancients and also make it cost 4k g golem is impossible to counter early gmes
drunken and bof shuld be doing more dmg than acid swarm Seriously........
druids are fine way they are. If they were made weaker... it would be a feed ultimate
tier 4 needs speed tier 4 is probably worst tier after tier 0 heck if i spend those money on tier 2 upgrades i can literally make trolls kill dark mortars
druids are op, u need 2 jammies' worth of mana to dispel them, unless u have ToT...
wat happened to undead frenzy? its liek weakened, add frenzy back to aboms, disease cloud is crap... http://chf.ucoz.com/forum/71-3499-61942-16-1396993348
Spells: 1. It is simply unfair for one guy to get a hero like 'Cou', 'Captain Bond', 'Medivh' or 'Soundwaves', while the other guy is stuck with 'Far Seer' or 'Hulk' or 'The Blob'. Get rid of all the shitty heroes, or increase the number of -repicks you have to 5 instead of 3.
2. Make the amount of time that owls last longer, so you don't have to keep recasting them with your hero over and over again. Or reduce the cooldown time of their mana burn at lower levels...because owls SUCK level 1-5. They're only good at level six honestly. Plus nobody uses owls anyway, so even with this buff and it wouldn't make them overpowered at all. biggrin
3. Nerf forcefield. What we talked about on skype isn't enough, it still screws over people who tech a ton. Everyone in this community agrees that forcefield needs a serious nerf. Make it so the hero inside the forcefield isnt invulernable. Also make it so you can't be blocked inside the forcefield by people with wards and interchange.
4. Buff lava spawns (and maybe water elements a bit less) by increasing their HP and attack dps.
5. nerf treants. give them a little less HP so its easier to dispel/kill them. treants and forcefield are two of the most op things in 4.0
6. Increase mana burn casting distance so you can cast it without having to be right next to the other player
7. Increase forked lightning damage to 600 since it can't even hit units in fog anyway
8. Buff raging storm, it sucks.
9. Buff interchange levels 1-5 and make it so people can't interchange demolishers/people channelling earthquake (you probably already know about the interchange-earthquake "glitch"/strategy, but let me know if you dont and i can explain it more)
10. Why is cluster rockets so much worse than impale when they basically do the same thing (stun/aoe damage)? Buff cluster rockets a bit.
12. Buff frost arrows. if you've played ladder, this is one of the deadliest spells in the game. In chf it sucks because people just windwalk away from it. Either buff frost arrows so it gets rid of the windwalk effect, or increase its duration by 1-2 seconds for both heroes and units.
13. Searing arrows could use a buff too. I don't think i've ever seen anyone win a game with this spell. up the damage a little bit at all levels.
14. Healing spray...sucks. Just make it so it a non-channelling spell or make it so it casts faster (like you don't have to channel it for so long) and make it heal your own units twice as much as it heals the enemy. also increase the amount that it heals so its comparable to healing wave
15. Fix holy light tooltip so it says the actual amount of damage that the spell does (not 1500/2=750). It does more than 750 at max level.
16. Make it so drunken haze causes breath of fire to do way more damage, like twice as much as it does now. Nobody plays drunken haze breath of fire because you can do way more damage with two aoes. Make drunken haze + bof combo more appealing.
17. Druids are pretty much fine but the one problem is that there's no way to counter them other than dispel, but they have sooo much HP that they're impossible to dispel. Reduce druid HP so that you can dispel them more easily? dispelling level 3 druids feels like im trying to get rid of a ward of the gods (i'm exaggerating but you get my point)
18. Buff flame strike and make it as strong as blizzard is. right now at max level it only does 72*4.33 damage which = 311 damage (LOL) plus a little extra burn damage which is really negligable. Blizzard does 170*5=850 damage. Make flame strike do more damage, maybe 1.25 or 1.5 times as much as it does now.
19. Buff frost armor. give the unit some spell resistance as well as increased armor and the frost effect.
20, BUFF DEATH PACT...need i say more? This spell actually has a lot of potential if you buff it correctly. Make it so you can sacrifice any unit type, not just undead but all races. reduce the spell's cooldown time. increase the amount of hit points you get by 50-100%.
21. buff howl of terror at higher levels, but NOT AT LEVEL ONE OR TWO because it is OP in mass already
22. Buff shadow strike SLIGHTLY. Nerf death coil damage on shamans (or cooldown time) and heroes SLIGHTLY. Nerf storm bolt, flaming lasso and entangling roots stun time SLIGHTLY at level 6.
Tech: in terms of tech the fixes are pretty straightforward.. OP SHIT: Headhunters (they are tier 2 but do more damage than any tier 3 unit. and dont give me that BS about piercing vs normal attack type. headhunters are fucking OP), Tauren (reduce the effectiveness of pulverize) WEAK SHIT THAT NEEDS BUFF: Ghouls, Skeleton Warriors, Druids of the Talon, Skeletal Mages (A LOT).
more generally bond you need to understand thsi simple concept. Tier 1 should be units with least HP, DPS, and Armor. Tier 2 should have a little more, then tier 3, then tier 4. right now you have tier 2 units that are equal to tier 4 units in terms of damage. Fix this.
Other: 1. Increase the amount of HP and Armor that nuke has. most people get nuke as a counter to tech, but if you get a nuke and the opponent has darks they can just run in your base and pwn it in two seconds. hence nuke has become useless
2. Downgrade scout tower : At least give 75% reward money
3. Granite golem. The problem with granite is that every counter there is for it you have to choose before the game starts. All you need to do to fix granite is make it so he can't be recalled using amulet of recall. I don't know if this is possible in code but if it is do this. If not just increase stock cd and it will be balanced enough
4. Make it so no ww and no ds mode are done through a vote (like ssd, arts, ftd or other modes) and that they need over 50% votes
5. make it so all modes need 75% votes to pass instead of 50% (or just get rid of ssd mode, its not balanced at all and you admitted this)
1. i can try and balance out some more of the heros, what makes soundwaves on the op side? the stats? or movement speed? i dont think he has any extra ability right
2. mana owls may take up a bit more micro time, but they are meant to be somewhat close to the mana burn you can pick with your hero. also they give the ability of true sight and i think they cost less mana than the hero ability, but i dont argue they could use some little buffs in that way
3. i set ff back to how it use to be back when no one picked it ever, so i think it should be ok for now i also more than doubled the cd time when its maxed out, it no longer goes down now but goes up a little in cd each lvl
4. been done
5. been done. only i nerfed them in many other ways not with hp though, at max lvl they have 1000 hp and thats only 3 casts to dispel, 2 casts to dispel is probably not enough to dispel a lvl6 summon. they will now be weaker vs tech though becuz their armor is lower, beetles were meant to be the tank with low damage and treants high attack but easier to kill so i set it back to that way.
6. it goes up with lvls and is ok but early lvls could use a bit more range
7. lol what is it now? 590
8. you're right it kinda sucks till lvl 5-6ish but at lvl 6 its kinda op in some ways
9. already done.
10. this spell works oddly, its power depends on the amount of units in an area, if there is 1 or 2 units/heros in the area they are beyond dead but if there is many maany units then it will do little damage, ill take a look at it though and see what it could use a buff, its an annoying spell to balance lol
12. been done.
13. hm idk.. i think its already op even though no one really gets it, it adds 150 damage per hit and i already set it back to be able to hurt buildings again a few versions ago, it use to be op before when it was like that with 120 dmg on a mauler so now its even better.
14. i can make it not heal enemies at all but cant make it change the amount it heals allies or enemies
15. not sure what you mean, if you looked at this spell in the editor before you would see there is only a value for the healing and it does just take half that and do dmg to undead type units.
16. already done. with both they do about what 2 waves would do in dmg not to mention the added affect that haze causes.
17. k ill lower it so its like casting 1 less dispell and see how that is for now, i forget how much hp they have 3200..?
18. sounds fine
19. if it needed a buff i think it should be in a different way, other wise it would just be all around better than the spell resistance shield spell.
20. its a hard coded spell in the game so it can only target undead units, it can also already get enemy undead units, and i think if i remember right last lvls it gives like 250% then like 400-450% at lvl 6 assuming u have something past t1 undead thats alot of hp lol
21. buff how so? i think it already reduces attack by like 95% which makes dark do nothing as it is lol, but i did already increase its duration time etc..
22. already did all that
Tech:
a banshee for example has 17-19 dmg no ups a troll has 34-42 its attack type matters more than you think it does 75% dmg to normal armor which is what many units have 35% dmg to buildings which is like nothing and 50% dmg to heros
and remember when dealing with dmg dice you gotta see the real dmg #
banshee does 18 dmg while troll does 38
with 10 attack ups banshee does 27-39 troll does 44-92 really is banshee does 33 and troll does 66 dmg
now as you can see, a t1 unit does almost the same exact damage as this t2 unit becuz u have to cut that dmg in half when attacking heros and even more so when attacking buildings and takes off 25% of that dmg which is 49dmg when attacking most unit types, its only 'super affective' vs certain units with light or no armor. and a archer does even a bit more dmg i think and gunmen does more dmg than a banshee as well, so aside from this unit getting some avalible HP upgrades its not as op as it appears when it comes down to the math.
Now a raider at t3 does 45-89 dmg with 10 ups but this is normal full dmg this does a full 67 damage to heros and heavy armor and 65% dmg to buildings and 150% to normal armor type units (which is most) the rest is mostly does full dmg to everything
pretty big difference between attack types and armor types. For example when i changed golems from having fort armor to heavy armor it was like me making them have 650 HP instead of them having 1000 HP it makes a big difference when you take everything that affects it into account.
ghouls could use a little buff but remember this will make dark arrow stronger skels are pretty much = to human t2 but with change in armor type droids arnt meant to be super strong they are meant to have insane range and be able to rape a unit 1 by 1 when the get close to a base and they are also a perfect counter vs xmuters skels i have buffed close to triple of what they use to be from back in like chf 2.0 they are kinda meant as a mass unit ranged attack thing, plus have speed attack boost and fast spawn and when they are killed they give like no gold reward, they arnt the normal stregth of most t3 units but they have their special applications, how would u recommend buffing them? If i buff their hp anymore i will have to make them give more gold reward so more buffs have to come with some other small nerfs.
Other:
k ill make nukes not so vulnerable to things in that way
this isnt legion td in the past you never got any money back for changing towers, just becuz they now downgrade so its more user friendly/less clutter why should it be any different?
got alot done with the Granite golem already most of it is along those lines.
we talked about this, the reason i make those lesser things a typing vote mode is becuz they arnt worth wasting ppls time with a vote menu coming up, also its a lot more time consuming for me to make all the code for a normal vote. thats why i just have that requires 4 votes type thing, for those side modes, its faster and easier. I think 4-5 votes for those things is more than fine becuz most ppl will not vote that stuff anyway, probably becuz it requires typing lol. So no need to worry about stuff like that anyway.
5. make it so all modes need 75% votes to pass instead of 50% (or just get rid of ssd mode, its not balanced at all and you admitted this) That is all true.. but you know as well as i do the vote rate on ssd is like 90%+ most the time anyway, i think with it now requiring a few wins codes it will more than solve this problem. most pubs dont have..
thanks bond, your responses seem perfectly reasonable. i agree with everything you said other than the stuff i will mention now:
for death pact could you just make a custom spell instead of using the hard coded version blizzard made? its pretty useless if u can only target undead units :/
for howl of terror, ill just quote what soundwaves said cause it makes sense "howl of terror : Buff duration time. this spell doesn't harm enemy hp. also it can be dispelled. so please buff it " just dont buff level 1 or 2 cause its so OP if you pick it for mass.
also another thing i thought of: serpent wards could use a small nerf. the other day me and xmon basekilled roystom's team with serpent wards and nothing else. literally just running in their base, putting down wards and running away. also serpent wards are a little op during mass as well so they could use a nerf at levels 1 2 3 4 5 and 6
u were right about forked lightning, i just checked. its fine how it is.
and for healing spray just make it so it doesnt heal enemies.
Message edited by T-Swizzle - Wednesday, 30-May-2012, 9:39 PM
I think that the Unit Income Mode should just take effect when red types it in because most people don't even know what it is.. It's a pretty cool mode I was able to try it 1 time lol
For zombie mode the zombies model size needs to be a bit smaller I think.
I think Stampede could use a slight range increase you have to be pretty much inside there base to cast.
I think that the jammy's need faster mana regeneration yesterday I was playing against a team that had 5 trent summoning hero's in ssd and let me tell you I had 3 jammys and they didn't have anywhere near enough mana to take those all out and the stock wasn't filling fast enough for me to get enough jammy's tp cover my base since 2 of them had xmute.. might would be nice if you could upgrade a jammy so it wouldn't be able to be xmuted like how the towers upgrade just make it look slightly different if you do that maybe use a different troll or something maybe like 1200 to upgrade it and it would have maybe 300 more hp and spell resistance and doubled mana amount and regen rate.
